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Thread: C950 Startup Help!

  1. #1

    Default C950 Startup Help!

    Just got my Commander 950 installed. I had a factory GM ECU running it before removal. I left base timing and everything there alone, at 8 degrees without moving anything, but the idle set screw up a little. It will start after very little cranking but then dies. I have adjusted the Fuel Map a little in the idle area and I have adjusted the Afterstart Enrichment % where it was red. As well as the Coolant Temperature Enrichment %, but only a few above where it was. I'm very new this but have done a lot of reading. My only downfall is I'm a hands on learner.

    Specs are: 350, Stealth Ram, 30# injectors, mild Crane cam, don't remember the specs on it. Innovate LM-2 wideband. Started with the MPI2 base tune.

    Any help I would love right now, as I have not heard my car run in a while!!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by seiplez View Post
    It will start after very little cranking but then dies.
    The Fuel Map must be well tuned before the starting parameters can be tuned.
    I highly suggest you stop & read the Commander 950 tuning manual, it's very good.
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibrary_r10149-7.pdf (C950 Tuning Manual)
    Look at the "Idle Fuel vs. Temperature" graphical representation - figure 8, page 29 of the manual.

    Innovate LM-2 wideband. Started with the MPI2 base tune.
    Is this WBO2 sensor kit integrated (Closed Loop feedback) with the ECU?
    http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/r...mmander950.pdf (C950 Integration)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #3

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    I have been reading and rereading that manual. It is a great manual.
    I passed it onto my brother who is trying to tune a MegaSquirt and not having much luck.
    It's making more sense to me, now that I have tried to start the car and see what it is doing.

    I have the wideband setup exactly like that page. Well at least the part circled in red, the rest I left alone. The O2 Compensation Limit is like 20%.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by seiplez View Post
    The O2 Compensation Limit is like 20%.
    Why limit the ECU to 20%? For initial tuning purposes, set them all to 25%.

    http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/sh...?post/2236964/ (C950 Fuel Map Tuning Procedure)
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....2773#post12773 (Additional Fuel Map Tuning Tip)
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....6662#post26662 (Ignition Timing Synchronization)
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....e-Tuning-Notes (EFI Idle Tuning Notes)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  5. #5

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    Wow, you're the man with this C950!!!
    Thank you so much for all the info. I did start over with the MPI1 base map adjusted for my wideband O2 sensor. Then I started messing with the Fuel Map in the area it was red in for idle, and no luck. Starts and then stalls. I had the map numbers all the way up to 55 they started at 13. It wants to start. I know I'm probably missing something stupid. Hopefully I'll find it this weekend when I get a chance to work on it.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by seiplez View Post
    I have the wideband setup exactly like that page. Well at least the part circled in red, the rest I left alone.
    You can't leave the rest alone.

    Ensure the "Wideband O2" has a check mark in the box.

    Cold Start Delay: 60 Seconds
    Hot Start Delay: 30 Seconds
    RPM to Enter Closed Loop: 500
    Below this RPM Go Open Loop: 400
    Minimum Engine Temp for Closed Loop Operation: 150°

    "O2 Compensation Step Size" - try
    2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3
    "Seconds Between O2 Compensation Step Changes" (Transport Delay) - try
    0.6, 0.5, 0.4, 0.35, 0.3, 0.28, 0.26, 0.24, 0.22, 0.20, 0.18, 0.16, 0.14, 0.12, 0.11, 0.10

    Set all the "O2 Compensation Limits" to the maximum of 25% for initial tuning purposes.
    Set the "Max TPS for Closed Loop Operation" to five more than your WOT TPS Position, to
    ensure the ECU never goes into open loop at WOT due to slight thermal TPS/linkage changes.

    I did start over with the MPI1 base map adjusted for my wideband O2 sensor.
    I would not do that. According to Holley Tech, the TBI/MPI1-6 are "theoretical base maps" and are horrible starting points.

    Then I started messing with the Fuel Map in the area it was red in for idle, and no luck. Starts and then stalls. I had the map numbers all the way up to 55 they started at 13.
    I'd like to ask one important question, "Do you know how to tune the main Fuel Map of an EFI system?"
    Be honest. If you don't, you really need the HP EFI, because the C950 requires you to know how to tune.
    It's not an easy task with the C950, and most likely, not worth the grief or the money saved.
    http://www.holley.com/types/HP%20EFI...ess%20Kits.asp (HP EFI ECU & Harness Upgrade Kits)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  7. #7

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    Thank you for that. I will try those settings, and yes, the wideband check box is checked.

    What would you recommend starting with then, if those base maps are no good?

    No, I do not how to tune yet. But I'm reading and reading some more, and all your posts and links have been extremely helpful!!! I'm a Motorola technician by trade so, I just need a little help to understand a few things. I would love to buy the HP setup, but a wife and kids wont allow that right now. I picked up this 950 setup brand new with harness for $350. I was going to do a Megasquirt, but came across this deal I couldn't pass up.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by seiplez View Post
    What would you recommend starting with then, if those base maps are no good?
    Try the "STLTHZZ4.950" base map. Program the Engine Parameters & Oxygen Sensor screens.
    http://www.holley.com/TechService/Li...#FuelInjection (Scroll down to "Commander 950 Base Maps - Downloadable")
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  9. #9

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    I did some further testing using the ZZ4 base map with all the settings you have suggested. This thing will still not run. It is definitely fuel related. I was able to keep it running just a little longer by adding starting fluid. Could the ECU be bad? I did have it at Holley a few moths ago for a firmware update, would it have been checked? It's just a little frustrating at this point. I would think it would at least start even if things were off. I really do appreciate the help you have given me so far.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by seiplez View Post
    It is definitely fuel related. I was able to keep it running just a little longer by adding starting fluid.
    If it liked that, have you tried increasing the cell values in the idle area? Did the WBO2 sensor indicate it was too lean or rich?

    Could the ECU be bad?
    There's nothing wrong with your ECU; your base calibration just needs to be tuned. The C950 is not a self-tuning ECU.

    It's just a little frustrating at this point. I would think it would at least start even if things were off.
    No, it will not run if the Fuel Map is way off. What is the fuel pressure (vacuum hose disconnected or key-on/engine-off)?


    I'd like to ask one important question, "Do you know how to tune the main Fuel Map of an EFI system?"
    Be honest. If you don't, you really need the HP EFI, because the C950 requires you to know how to tune.
    It's not an easy task with the C950, and most likely, not worth the grief or the money saved.
    https://www.holley.com/products/fuel..._harness_kits/ (HP EFI ECU & Harness Upgrade Kits)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: Dominator MPFI & DIS, A/C, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/X-pipe/shorty headers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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