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Thread: Bogging/Cutting Out Problem

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino0487 View Post
    While I was on the phone, 2 different tech personnel told me two different things. One said something about setting it at 10 degrees, and the other said I need to rev it close to 4,000 rpm, and set the timing on the harmonic balancer to what the handheld reads.
    They're both right, because timing synchronization is a two step process.
    Although the Ignition Reference Angle is only 10° for Ford TFI & GM HEI.
    The first synchronization is physical; turn distributor to sync the idle timing.
    The second synchronization (electronic), is adjusting the Inductive Delay at higher RPM (momentary 4000 RPM).

    Maybe I'm a dummy, but the instructions on the timing are a little confusing/vague to me. Could you give me a heads up on how to set it, and or sync my timing and maybe dumb it down a little (that's if mine is set wrong)?
    If this doesn't make sense, you'll need to get someone to help you:
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ing-Holley-EFI (Timing synchronization)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  2. #12

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    Perhaps the method is different for those using only the handheld vs those using a laptop? I saw no Inductive Delay setting in the handheld screens. The book that comes with the Terminator, states to adjust distributor to match handheld at approx 2000 RPM. I don't believe the 10 degree reference is mentioned at all.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by doldsen83 View Post
    Perhaps the method is different for those using only the handheld vs those using a laptop?
    Yes, it is. Using the laptop computer is the only way to accurately & completely synchronize the timing.

    http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/sh...rch/1/#2190226 (Similar Forum Thread)
    In other words, don't do it the way the Avenger & Terminator manuals instruct.
    It's not as accurate as the way I described in the timing synchronization Link.

    The Avenger/Terminator instructions will synchronize the timing to what Holley feels is "close enough" for Avenger/Terminator users.
    For exceptional timing accuracy, connect a laptop and do it right.
    That's what the "Enable Static Timing Set" and "Inductive Delay" is for.

    Excerpts from Holley EFI manual:
    Inductive Delay - Some ignition modules (specifically GM HEI and Ford TFI) may need this number
    altered if the commanded timing does not match the commanded timing as engine speed increases.
    If the timing starts to retard, this number can be increased in order for the timing to match.
    Enable Static Timing Set
    - Allows for a fixed timing to be entered. This is done when syncing ECU and engine timing.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  4. #14

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    Thanks Doldsen83, you asked the question I was about to...ha ha. Well, turns out I was way over thinking it, and I have it set right, like the manual says. I have started exploring on the laptop, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to synchronize it like Danny instructed above.

    After a very deep inspection, I found that my ignition wire changes colors as it goes through the fire wall so I'm running the ECU red/white wire on the same wire that is running my TFI coil! I'm going to investigate this more tomorrow. Am I able to run a 12V wire to the red/white ECU power wire from the battery, and install a toggle switch just to check to see if this is causing my break up issue? If this stupid mistake is causing all my grief I will feel like an idiot. Starting to wish I stayed with what I knew (carbs), but I know if I ever get this figured out, I'll be super pleased with it.
    '91 Mustang Notchback, daily driver/drag car. 306", 3000 lbs with me & full interior, Team-z upper/lower CA's, X pipe & MAC Pro Dumps, built AOD, Silverfox custom valve body, BTE custom 4000 stall, 4.56s, Trick Flow Track Heat heads, Track Max cam, 1.72 RR, ported rpm air-gap, Terminator EFI, 12 gallon fuel cell, Strange adjustable shocks, 4 cyl front springs, M/T 295/50/16 drag radials. 11.95@115

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino0487 View Post
    Am I able to run a 12V wire to the red/white ECU power wire from the battery, and install a toggle switch just to check to see if this is causing my break up issue?
    Yes, for troubleshooting purposes only.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ness-Questions (Related Forum Thread)
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...10555rev16.pdf (Holley EFI Wiring Manual - page 11)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  6. #16

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    You'll get it figured out. When you do, you'll never go back to a carb. This system is awesome! It'll probably be something simple, it usually is.

  7. #17

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    Well, my timing is set correctly for sure, so that is out of the picture. The car seems to run OK, except for a few things that probably are the cause of one problem. The car runs super hot, it's worst at cruise and cools down a little at idle. And no, my cooling system is fine, because I have replaced the entire system with upgraded components last week, and I still have the same issue. It also bogs hard when you put the throttle down quickly. It seems rich and could be the AE but I don't want to mess with it until I figure out this ignition or ECU issue. I replaced my tachometer (because I thought it was going out) to find the new one has the same issue. At cruise, between 2000-4000 rpm, the needle will jump around at cruise about 2-500 rpm, which seems to make a very slight misfire sound. I looked at the rpm on my Terminator handheld, and it does it a little. Also, whenever the tach does it, except it only bounces 2-300 rpm. It did this also when I first installed the Terminator, and I was running the mechanical advance distributor. But when it was carbureted, it did not have this issue at all (I never touched the ignition system on the first install). Then I switched to the TFI distributor with the MSD CD ignition box, and then with no luck, I have rewired it again without the MSD box. (Yes, I changed everything in the setup wizard every time I rewired it).

    I have sent the ECU to go get tested twice. The last time I both wrote them a note and called and told them, I did not want that same ECU back no matter what the tests show. I offered to pay additional money to have them ship a new one, but they sent back the same one anyway saying it's fine. Go figure. For all the money I have spent upgrading/troubleshooting this issue, I could have bought the Dominator system by now, and still had money to blow on dyno tuning. I have a dyno/tuning appointment at Redline in Bloomington IL. They are a Holley EFI dealer, tuner, and installer, and are aware of my issues. After I go there, and blow even more of my hard earned money, I will hopefully report back with the cause of the issue. They said, it's probably something stupid and easy, and I sure hope so, or else I will shipping this system back and replacing it with a good old Dominator carb. I know my problem is rare, but it's hard to not be enraged when you buy something so expensive that is portrayed to be so easy & foolproof, just to dump endless amounts of cash into it and hassle so many knowledgeable people who know about the system, yet still have a car running like crap, and watching racing season go by without me. My appointment is on the 27th. I'll post then if we figure out the cause of the issue. Thanks for all the help though Danny.
    Last edited by rhino0487; 05-10-2014 at 05:59 PM.
    '91 Mustang Notchback, daily driver/drag car. 306", 3000 lbs with me & full interior, Team-z upper/lower CA's, X pipe & MAC Pro Dumps, built AOD, Silverfox custom valve body, BTE custom 4000 stall, 4.56s, Trick Flow Track Heat heads, Track Max cam, 1.72 RR, ported rpm air-gap, Terminator EFI, 12 gallon fuel cell, Strange adjustable shocks, 4 cyl front springs, M/T 295/50/16 drag radials. 11.95@115

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino0487 View Post
    The car runs super hot, it's worst at cruise and cools down a little at idle. It also bogs hard when you put the throttle down quickly.
    In Ignition Parameters, what's your Ignition Type, Ignition Reference Angle and Inductive Delay value?
    Is the Ford TFI distributor & MSD CDI box wired like figure 26, page 18:
    http://documents.holley.com/199r10653rev5doc.pdf (Terminator EFI Manual)

    Let's first cover the basics:
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ents-Read-This! (Initial Checks & Adjustments - Read This!)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  9. #19

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    It's currently wired without the MSD CD box, so it is wired like figure 25, page 18.
    I don't have it hooked up because it says not to in figure 25, but why is there an
    additional ground on figure 26 as opposed to figure 25? For the extra electrical current?

    Ignition Type is Ford TFI 8 cyl (SEFI)
    Ignition Reference Angle is 10°
    Inductive Delay is 1.0 usec

    I will go out and cover the second half of your post after work, and get back to you.
    '91 Mustang Notchback, daily driver/drag car. 306", 3000 lbs with me & full interior, Team-z upper/lower CA's, X pipe & MAC Pro Dumps, built AOD, Silverfox custom valve body, BTE custom 4000 stall, 4.56s, Trick Flow Track Heat heads, Track Max cam, 1.72 RR, ported rpm air-gap, Terminator EFI, 12 gallon fuel cell, Strange adjustable shocks, 4 cyl front springs, M/T 295/50/16 drag radials. 11.95@115

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino0487 View Post
    Inductive Delay is 1.0 usec
    So the ignition timing isn't fully synchronized, and you're wondering why you're having problems.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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