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Thread: Ignition Decisions with Dominator EFI

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by centrifuge View Post
    So if EFI connection cannot verify if the cam sync distributor will run high rpm, what's my next best option?
    Either inquire of the EFI Connection cam sync unit on a predominate racing forum, or convert a known capable distributor to a cam sync unit. Although a Hall-Effect sensor is preferred, a distributor converted to DIS, theoretically should be able to use a VR magnetic pickup cam sensor.

    Excerpt from Holley EFI manual:
    NOTE - It is not advised to use a magnetic pickup distributor to directly feed the magnetic trigger input of the ECU. If the
    magnetic pickup distributor is connected to the ECU via the inductive pickup trigger wires, the pickup/rotor/cap phasing
    must be corrected. This operation may require a phaseable cap or rotor or possibly machining to the distributor and is
    therefore beyond the scope of most users. Even with the phasing corrected, the electrical noise inside the cap
    (due to the high voltage cap & rotor terminals) may be strong enough to cause electrical noise interference.
    It is advised to use a crank trigger system or a computer-controlled distributor.
    The more robust Hall-Effect sensors are preferred because they're not susceptible to EMI/RFI interference/noise,
    and their digital square-wave signal strength is consistent, regardless of RPM (unlike the VR magnetic sine-wave).
    Also, the magnetic VR signal is weaker at cranking speeds.

    Another problem with using VR Magnetic sensors, is there's more tuning work. Hall-Effect is "set & forget".
    The VR Magnetic Sensor Type "Filtering" & "Minimum Signal Voltage" parameters need to be programmed.
    http://documents.holley.com/199r10676rev.pdf (Magnetic Crank/Cam Input Filtering Parameters - Page 2)

    Hall-Effect: 3-wire, square wave signal (digital), pulse generation
    VR Magnetic: 2-wire, sine wave signal (inductive), voltage generation
    http://www.electronicproducts.com/El...g_for_you.aspx (Hall-Effect vs VR Magnetic)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Cabral View Post
    Either inquire of the EFI Connection cam sync unit on a predominate racing forum...
    I was also curious, so I did it for you: http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=681834
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #23

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    Danny, thanks for the response and the effort to ask on YellowBullet.com. Sorry for the delay in response, I was traveling last week.
    I was glad EFI Connection is honest and said they had never tested to higher than 6500 rpm, but real application is the best. I think I will proceed with this.

    I've had some nightmares trying to get a VR magnetic sensor to work properly at all rpm ranges, and with a steady fixed signal, etc. Hall-Effect sensor, I've never had a problem with.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by centrifuge View Post
    Thanks for the response and the effort to ask on YellowBullet.com.
    As I stated earlier, I was curious about it too.

    I've had some nightmares trying to get a VR magnetic sensor to work properly at all rpm ranges, and with a steady fixed signal, etc. Hall-Effect sensor, I've never had a problem with.
    That's why I keep advocating the use of Hall-Effect sensors.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  5. #25

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    Single Pulse – Camshaft position sensors that have a single pulse. For digital sensors, the tooth trigger width needs to be long enough for a proper signal. A general guideline for minimum tooth width is .250 inches (1/4”)
    Question about cam sensor selection:
    According to the manual single pulse says ¼" min tooth width. So in that case, does it really have to be a 50/50 wheel? If not, is the reason the AEM unit does not work because it has the single tooth for cam sensor too small?

    Only have one reservation about the EFI Connection unit is since it does not have a slip collar and this is a custom manifold need to make sure I can adjust the depth (probably figure it out).

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by centrifuge View Post
    So in that case, does it really have to be a 50/50 wheel?
    No, absolutely not. My cam sync is just a ⅜" tab and it works great.

    If not, is the reason the AEM unit does not work because it has the single tooth for cam sensor too small?
    No one said the AEM EPM Module won't work as a cam sync unit only.
    It's the crank signal that's not compatible with Holley EFI.

    Only have one reservation about the EFI Connection unit is since it does not have a slip collar and this is a custom manifold need to make sure I can adjust the depth (probably figure it out).
    Mike Beck from YellowBullet.com (Link), was able to machine that square section round, and convert it to a slip collar type hold-down.
    http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...2#post12033522 (Additional Information)
    http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...8#post10979378 (Additional Information)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  7. #27

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    No one said the AEM EPM Module won't work as a cam sync unit only.
    It's the crank signal that's not compatible with Holley EFI.
    Ahh...it is clear now. So if I did setup an AEM EPM to pick the cam signal only, then when Holley does support it, I could swap the MSD wheel off and pickup the 24 tooth crank sensor on the AEM EPM?

    Mike Beck from that YellowBullet link, was able to machine that square section round, and convert it to a slip collar type hold-down.
    Good idea, by chance did he post any pics of that on the bullet?
    Last edited by centrifuge; 02-05-2014 at 02:34 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by centrifuge View Post
    So if I did setup an AEM EPM to pick the cam signal only, then when Holley does support it, I could swap the MSD wheel off and pickup the 24 tooth cam sensor on the AEM EPM?
    You mean crank sensor, right?
    Not necessarily, it depends if the AEM EPM Module's crank & cam signals happen at the right time. (Link)
    Also, why would you want to remove a good MSD crank trigger, to use a distributor type crank signal?

    Good idea, by chance did he post any pics of that on the bullet?
    I don't see any pictures, but here's his explanation:
    http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...2#post12033522 (Additional Information)
    http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...8#post10979378 (Additional Information)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  9. #29

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    You mean crank sensor, right?
    24 tooth crank sensor, right, my bad.

    Also, why would you want to remove a good MSD crank trigger, to use a distributor type crank signal?
    Just for a cleaner install and more resolution, however, there is some error introduced by doing it this way, or at least in theory (cam flex etc.).

    I don't see any pictures, but here's his explanation: http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...2&postcount=50
    Thanks, this thread also answered some questions about Inductive Delay setting I was about to ask. So was his experience with the shutter wheel slipping on the other unit, not the one I am looking at? That's what I gathered anyway...that really sucks, it destroyed his engine!

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by centrifuge View Post
    Just for a cleaner install and more resolution, however, there is some error introduced by doing it this way, or at least in theory (cam flex etc.).
    My opinion: Forget the so-called cleaner look of that ugly AEM EPM Module.
    The EFI Connection cam sync unit looks better, costs less and a crank trigger is better anyway.

    So was his experience with the shutter wheel slipping on the other unit, not the one I am looking at?
    They no longer sell the billet version of their cam sync unit, due to problems (Link). Their current cam sync unit is fine.
    UPDATE: EFI Connection is now selling a better version of their previous billet cam sync unit:
    https://www.eficonnection.com/home/p...nc-distributor (EFI Connection 120-00054 Billet 1x Cam Sync Unit)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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