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Thread: Tuning Question

  1. #1

    Default Tuning Question

    On my new Terminator setup, my engine idles between 60-65 kPa when warm. I cannot drive the car until April but I'm thinking ahead.
    If my engine idles at 60-65 kPa, should I be rescaling the MAP axis for better resolution, if so, where should I start at?
    I see there are a lot of areas that use MAP, so I know I will have to work on other tables.
    Thanks, Tom

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
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    22,734

    Default MAP kPa & RPM Axis Configuration/Tuning Information

    Quote Originally Posted by FuelieNova View Post
    If my engine idles at 60-65 kPa, should I be rescaling the MAP axis for better resolution, if so, where should I start at?
    That's a typical idling range. You shouldn't need any specific idle area reconfiguration...just some basic scale reconfiguration for the most overall resolution. There are some things I changed with my Global File:

    Mainly, the RPM & kPa scales should be configured for better resolution. A 1-bar MAP sensor only reads from 10 kPa to 105 kPa, but a naturally aspirated MAP scale doesn't need to be set beyond 100 kPa, especially at higher elevations. (The ECU extrapolates the last known cell value to the same amount.) So the MAP kPa scale can be configured from 10-20 kPa to 100 kPa for the most available resolution. The 2, 4, 7, 11, 102 & 105 kPa rows are useless to me, and were a loss of valuable table resolution.
    http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...2#post11139232 (MAP kPa Scale Notes - Low Boost Forced Induction Applications)

    MAP scale: Manually enter 10-20 kPa in the bottom cell and 100 in the top cell. Then highlight all the kPa cells by right-clicking the entire kPa column and select "Fill Column Values".

    The RPM scale can also be configured for better resolution. There should only be two columns below the target idle column and the last high RPM column should be your maximum RPM. So if you idle at 900 RPM, the RPM scale can be configured from 600-700 RPM to 6300 RPM (or whatever your redline is) for the most resolution. The 500, 600, 6500, 6750 & 7000 RPM columns are useless to me, and were a further loss of valuable table resolution.

    RPM scale: Manually enter the target idle RPM cell (3rd cell), the two cells below it and the one idle cell above it (4th cell). Next, manually enter the maximum (rev limiter) RPM in the last cell. Then, highlight the RPM scale by right-clicking on the 4th cell, all the way to the last RPM cell and select "Fill Row Values".

    * If reconfiguring the kPa & RPM axes (scales), it's helpful to open two Holley EFI windows (by opening the Holley EFI software twice), and copy & paste the entire corresponding RPM columns & MAP kPa rows over to the new Fuel & Timing Tables. Also, your Fuel & Timing Tables shouldn't have any spikes or dips in it. Then enter the Fuel & Timing Graphs and blend everything in, so it looks smooth. One aspect of viewing the Fuel Graph: It's better to zoom in, by highlighting segments of the Base Fuel Table (left click & drag), and click "Graph". This method offers much greater detail. Looking at the entire "Fuel Graph" will almost always look smooth, because it's not as magnified.
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...821#post215821 (Related Forum Post)

    You can still use your Global File when using the Base Fuel Table and/or Base Timing Table from another base calibration. Just copy & paste the Base Fuel Table & Base Timing Table from the appropriate bar MAP sensor base calibration, onto your Global File. When using two base calibrations to create a Global File, it's much easier to open two Holley EFI windows (by opening the Holley EFI software twice), and copy & paste the entire Base Fuel & Timing Tables, from a base calibration, to your Global File. Click "Save" (top Toolbar) and cycle the ignition switch off-on.

    A custom MAP sensor (Sensors ICF) must still be programmed according to what it actually is. Example:
    If you have a 3 bar MAP sensor, that's what must be selected (Sensors ICF), even if the engine produces less boost.
    Conversely, the Fuel & Timing Table axes (kPa & RPM scales) should be reconfigured to the engine's actual capabilities.

    If you've read the Holley EFI software "Help" Contents, you may have come across the X & Y axis terms.
    Just to clarify, the X axis is the RPM scale, and the Y axis is the MAP kPa scale.
    I hope I'm not confusing you with all these details...I just want you to be informed.

    In the EFI software, click "Help", "Contents" & "Step-By-Step Beginners Tuning".
    Look at Figure 11: "Example of Fuel Map with Graphical Representation".
    That illustration should explain how the ECU uses the Base Fuel & Timing Tables.
    You can verify this by watching where the live cursor moves to when Online with ECU.
    Also in the EFI software "Help" Contents, read the "Base Fuel Table Tuning Quick Guide".

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    • In the EFI software, click "Help", "Contents" & "Step-By-Step Beginners Tuning".
    Look at Figure 11 below: "Example of Fuel Map with Graphical Representation".
    That illustration should explain how the ECU uses the Base Fuel & Timing Tables.
    You can verify this by watching where the live cursor moves to when Online with ECU.
    Also in the EFI software "Help" Contents, read the "Base Fuel Table Tuning Quick Guide".
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ents-Read-This! (Initial Checks & Adjustments - Read Steps #1-#6!)

    • The Holley ECU continuously uses, updates & saves the Learn Table progress, regardless if you've "Transferred Learning To Base" or not. Clicking
    "Transfer Learning to Base" just modifies the Base Fuel Table with the current Learn values (the engine doesn't know the difference), so you can
    blend the Fuel Graph for smooth transitions
    . Think of the Base Fuel Table and the Learn Table as one table, because the two actually function as one.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....7370#post47370 (Closed Loop & Learn Table - Especially posts #2, #6 & #11.)

    • If you'd like to manually tune the Base Fuel Table (even while the engine is running), read below:
    Left click & drag to select a group of cells, then use the CTRL & Arrow keys (▲►▼◄) to change the highlighted cell values.
    The ▲ & ▼ arrow keys adjust the Base Fuel Table slowly (one tenth at a time). The ◄ & ► arrow keys adjust it rapidly.
    Or you can left click & drag a group of highlighted cells, and right click "Offset Selected" to adjust the entire cell group.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....7531#post77531 (Closed Loop Datalog Tuning - Posts #2, #4 & #6)
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....7913#post67913 (Air Temperature Enrichment % Table Tuning)

    • Also, ensure the Base Fuel Table is smooth by viewing & blending the Fuel Graph. It's very important to have a smooth Fuel Graph.
    One aspect of viewing the Fuel Graph: It's better to zoom in, by highlighting segments of the Base Fuel Table (left click & drag), and click "Graph".
    This method offers much greater detail. Looking at the entire "Fuel Graph" will almost always look smooth, because it's not as magnified.
    TIP: When the Fuel Graph is smooth, click "Conversion" (VE% Conversion mode) and continue smoothing the general contour of the VE Fuel Graph.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....e-Tuning-Notes (EFI Idle Tuning Notes)

    • Personally, I never use the "Smooth" button option. Manually blending the Fuel Graph smooth works much better.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....0150#post80150 ("Smooth" Function Information)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y17MClF7SYA (Base Fuel Table/Fuel Graph Tuning - Part 1)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRn3A5_ecpo (Base Fuel Table/Fuel Graph Tuning - Part 2)

    • When the engine is tuned & running well, you should decrease the Closed Loop and Learned Compensation Limits % to lock in a good tune.
    I decreased my Learned Compensation Limits to 2% in the idle area (10% elsewhere). My Closed Loop Compensation Limits are 20% or less.
    When the Learn Table values stop making significant changes, the ECU is finished self-tuning. You can then Transfer Learning To Base,
    which then allows you to blend the Fuel Graph so it's smooth.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....7370#post47370 (Learn Table - Read this thread, especially posts #2, #6 & #11.)

    • And if the Learned Compensation Limits % are significantly decreased (as they should be after the engine is tuned), the
    Closed Loop Compensation can save the engine (in the event of a fuel system fault) without skewing the Base Fuel Table.
    So you can fix a temporary fuel system fault without necessarily having to fix the "tune".
    http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh....php?t=1000178 (Related Forum Thread)

    • Stalling in gear or at a stop: In the Holley EFI software (LINK), look at where this happens on the Base Fuel & Timing Tables. Determine if it's stalling
    due to a rich or lean condition. Also, the IAC Position is supposed to increase when you shift the transmission into gear (LINK). Sometimes the "neutral"
    area of the Base Fuel Table is fine, but the "in gear" area needs to be tuned. On the Base Fuel Table, the "in gear" idle area is just above the "neutral"
    idle area. Look at where the live cursor moves to, when you shift the transmission into gear. Is this "in gear" idle area, a little more rich (lbs/hr), than
    the "neutral" idle area? You'll have to look at the Learn Table too, since they function as one (LINK). Also, ensure the Target A/F Ratio Table and Base
    Timing Table are flat in these two idle areas.
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...6586#post86586 (Advanced 1D/2D Table For In-Gear Idle Control)
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...869#post211869 (Advanced 1D Table For Electric Fan Idle RPM Dip)

    • On an opposite note, Acceleration Enrichment can't be tuned until the Base Fuel Table is well tuned.
    If you have a momentary lean spike, on light throttle acceleration, check
    your AE vs TPS/MAP RoC Blanking values (in Fuel Modifiers/Fuel Control):
    If they're 15 & 7, those are the old values from the V1 ECU firmware.
    Change the AE vs TPS RoC Blanking value to 4-6.
    Change the AE vs MAP RoC Blanking value to 5-7.
    Some users reported the need for an even lower TPS RoC Blanking value.
    Ensure there's no TPS/MAP RoC signal activity at idle, due to noise/kPa fluctuation.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....1379#post61379 (AE Tuning Information)
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....7925#post47925 (Additional AE Tuning Information For Stubborn Engines)

    • Read pages 4-10 of this Edelbrock EFI tuning manual, it's very good:
    https://edelbrock-files-v1.s3.amazon...ers-manual.pdf (Edelbrock EFI Tuning Manual)
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...8640#post88640 (Target A/F Ratio Table & Base Timing Table Reference)

    • Remember, the only thing this EFI system self-tunes, is the Base Fuel Table, via the Learn Table.
    You're responsible for everything else, especially the Target A/F Ratio Table & the Base Timing Table.
    A dynamometer is the only real way to determine the optimum ignition timing for your performance engine.
    Most people research it, or just "know" what their engine needs or likes. Especially if it's a popular engine.

    EFI Software Help Information/Instructions:
    ‒ On the top Toolbar, click "Help" & "Contents". This opens all Help topics.
    ‒ When navigating the software, click "Help ?", drag it to any parameter and click again.
    ..This automatically opens the definitions for that specific parameter.
    ‒ Tuning information can be read by clicking the F1 key, when you're viewing any screen.
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibrary_199r10544.pdf (Holley EFI Help/Instructions Overview)
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...r10546rev1.pdf (Holley EFI Quick Start Guide)
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...10555rev17.pdf (Holley EFI Wiring Manual & Diagrams)
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ents-Read-This! (Initial Checks & Adjustments - Read Steps #1-#6!)
    Open the Holley EFI software "Help" Contents ("Help" drop down menu), and read "Step-By-Step Beginners Tuning".
    Ensure the EFI software is set to run as an "Administrator" (right click for Properties/Advanced). Set it and forget it.



    Originally Posted by Danny Cabral
    Quick Datalogger Information:
    Always provide data, not just symptoms. Is the AFR & ignition timing optimized? Overlay the datalog onto your Global File.
    Ensure the Target A/F Ratio table is properly programmed for your engine. Ensure the ECU is "Learning" (Learn Table LINK).
    Scroll through the datalog to the problem area. Then look exactly where this happens on the Base Fuel & Timing Tables. Scrutinize:
    RPM, MAP, MAT, TPS, CTS, IAC, Target AFR, AFR Left, CL Comp, Ignition Timing, Duty Cycle, Fuel Flow, Fuel Pressure & Battery.

    Using the Holley EFI software (LINK), look at where the live cursor moves to during this occurrence, and
    manually tune that area of the Base Fuel Table (enrich or lean) & Base Timing Table (optimize ignition timing).


    I find the most helpful datalog function, is overlaying the datalog on your Global File.
    I'm in the habit of using the datalog Overlay feature every time I review a datalog.
    Click on "Datalog" (on the top Toolbar), "Activate Overlay", then "Open Data Log".
    You can literally "playback" a recorded event, and watch it as it happened on any screen.
    Minimize (shrink) the datalog window, and move it to the bottom of any Global File screen.
    Then click & scroll anywhere on the datalog, and watch it playback on your Global File (EFI software).
    http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...9r10543rev.pdf (Holley EFI Datalogger Instructions)
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...s-amp-Datalogs (Datalog & System Log Information - Read "NOTES")
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqHO...C6FEA0BB99AF17 (How To Record & Email A Datalog)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7OZUXLRS1Q (How To Record A System Log & Diagnose A No-Start Condition)
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...7531#post77531 (Closed Loop Datalog Tuning - Posts #2, #4 & #6)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #3

    Default

    Much appreciated. I cannot believe how much I like this Holley software.
    Especially once I read the part that all the info is in the help file and not in printed media.
    That and the drag the "?" to a box is great.
    I'm really keeping my eye open for a good deal on a Dominator ECU, just to have transmission
    control in the same box and being able to clean up extra wiring under the dash.
    If you hear of any good deals on a used box let me know. Thanks again, Tom

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Chicago IL
    Posts
    1,952

    Default

    If it was me, I wouldn't bother with 10 or 20 kPa for that matter either.
    The car will never see that under normal driving, except for hard deceleration.
    And even if it does dip down lower, it would only be a little rich.
    If you use Decel Fuel Cutoff, it wouldn't matter at all at that point.
    You can set it for 25 or 30 up to 100.

    Also, depending on where you live, it is possible to see 100+ kPa,
    especially if you live near sea level and have a functional ram air hood.
    I've seen cars get 1 psi of pressure from a ram air hood.

    Also, you might see benefits from not being a linear resolution.
    You might want a little less resolution in some areas and more in others.
    I know some people who configure it like this: 20, 30, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, 100, 105.
    Or people who put more resolution in idle area: 20, 30, 40, 45, 50, 55, 57.5, 60, 62.5, 65, 67.5, 70, 80, 90, 95, 100.

    Same goes for the RPM scale, it doesn't have to follow even steps as it goes up.
    Use it to make better sense for your setup.

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