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Thread: Up & running but with startup issues.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by chillininnh View Post
    I'd be glad to look at yours, either way, I've never emailed mine but it can't be that hard.
    Emailing Global Folders/Global Files (V4) & Datalogs:
    Your Global Folder and/or Datalogs can be emailed to yourself or other forum members. Click on their username, "View Profile", "About Me" & "Download vCard" for their email address. When emailing a Global Folder/File or Datalog, use your email's 'attachment utility' function and Browse through your computer's "Documents", "Holley", "HEFI" & "Global Folders"/"Global Files" (V4) or "Datalogs". V3 & earlier: Then right click on your Global Folder and Send To "Compressed (Zipped) Folder". Then select the zipped folder and attach it to the email. V4 Global Files & Datalogs (all versions) aren't required to be "zipped"; simply select & attach it to the email. The recipient now has your entire GF or Datalog in one easy step. If it's zipped from email, so download it to your Desktop (or wherever your PC saves it to), and unzip it. Then "Cut & Paste" the GF into "Holley" "HEFI" "Global Folders/Files" directory (located in Documents).
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehkohler View Post
    It seems that on cold start up it wants to fire but cuts out right away. Once I get it running and it warms up its not too bad.
    It's probably too lean. What's the AFR when this happens? Has the Learning finished self-tuning the idle area?

    What is the 'Global Folder' you are referring to?
    The Global Folder is your engine file (all your settings and current state of tune). It really applies to laptop users.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  3. #13

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    Danny, my AFR is about 12.3-13.0/13.2. I noticed that if I put it in gear with our applying brake (I'm up on jack stands) it will make the transition gone. If I have brakes applied it stalls. AFR staying in the same area.

    How do I know when the Learning has finished tuning the idle area?

    The system seems to be acting very erratically. It doesn't seem to duplicate behavior. At some points it will rev clean, then at others, it seems too rich and does more stumbling than revving. It also at one point or another holds the idle at like 1700ish and takes its sweet time settling down. I notice the % on the IAC goes up when it's in gear. Is that normal?

  4. #14

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    I was reading in another thread about O2 correction trouble and the fella asked about having a vacuum line connected to the regulator. I'm using the Holley EFI billet regulator. Am I supposed to have this hooked up? Could this be part of my problems? If so, which vacuum port does it go to on the TB. The one in front or around back?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehkohler View Post
    The timing is staying at a solid 15° at idle. It's an MSD Pro Billet distributor with NO vacuum advance only mechanical advance. And yeah that's in gear.
    It's a Ford 351 Cleveland with a Weiand X-celerator intake, full MSD ignition, 1-3/4" headers with 3" exhaust, and a 244 @ .050 cam...
    Your engine combo needs a lot more timing advance.
    In my entire Timing Table, I don't have a value less than 25°!

    I'm using the Holley EFI billet regulator. Am I supposed to have this hooked up?
    You should have the vacuum reference hose connected to the fuel pressure regulator, especially for accurate lb/hr values in the Fuel Tables.

    If so, which vacuum port does it go to on the TB. The one in front or around back?
    It connects to full manifold vacuum, not the timed (ported) spark port.
    http://www.holley.com/data/Products/...R10653rev1.pdf (See page 8.)

    Could this be part of my problems?
    Probably not, because the ECU will still self-tune.

    How do I know when the Learning has finished tuning the idle area?
    When the Learn Table values stop making significant changes.

    It also at one point or another holds the idle at like 1700ish and takes its sweet time settling down.
    Try decreasing the IAC Hold Position and/or the Ramp Decay Time.

    I notice the % on the IAC goes up when it's in gear. Is that normal?
    Yes, in gear increases load, so the IAC opens slightly.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  6. #16

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    Wow! Nothing less than 25° of timing? That seems like a lot of initial timing. Are the initial timing requirements going to be greater when using the EFI kit? Does that mean my timing across the whole rpm range is going to increase? The way I have it set now, is 15° initial with 21° of advance for a total of 36°. Please fill me in on this. Could this be why it has issues starting when hot and stalling when I drop it in gear? I greatly appreciate your help Danny.

    On a side note, Holley should really revise the instruction manual. There's to much left out or vague areas in my opinion. I mean I've gone back and looked at the manual plus the fuel system instructions & the regulator instructions, and nowhere does it say or recommend to hook up the vacuum port on the regulator. Also, it should give some base line suggestions for timing for cars that will not be using the ECU to time the engine. I think they should also compile a troubleshooting list based on common issues to help the user. (That way you won't have so many guys like myself pestering you for help). I understand this is a new product but none the less I think the instructions could have been a little more well thought out. Other than that, I'm excited to get it going.

    Again, thank you and please explain the timing requirements to me. I mean I see on the hand-held where the timing value want to be. Should I try and match that?
    BTW. I'm experiencing what I feel are high exhaust temperatures. Upwards of 700°. Is bumping up the timing going to help lower the temperature. I seem to remember that when I had the carb on the temps were closer to 400-maybe 500°.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehkohler View Post
    Please fill me in on this. Could this be why it has issues starting when hot and stalling when I drop it in gear?
    Yes. I'm sure you'll find pages 4-10 of this Edelbrock EFI tuning manual very interesting:
    https://edelbrock-files-v1.s3.amazon...ers-manual.pdf

    I think they should also compile a troubleshooting list based on common issues to help the user.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ist-Holley-EFI (Troubleshooting Checklist)

    I mean I see on the hand-held where the timing value want to be. Should I try and match that?
    Yes. http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ing-Holley-EFI (Is your timing synchronized?)

    BTW. I'm experiencing what I feel are high exhaust temperatures. Upwards of 700°. Is bumping up the timing going to help lower the temperature.
    Yes, retarded timing advance causes high exhaust temperatures. Ensure your ignition timing is synchronized. Hand-held display & timing light should read the same!

    EDIT: The timing synchronization references in this post, are only for computer controlled (ECU) timing advance applications.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

  8. #18

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    OK. So I'm guessing a lot of my problem is with my timing. Again, I'm using my MSD box for RPM signal and manually setting the timing (no ECU timing). I will look into the other info and see what happens and report back. Thanks again, -Ed

  9. #19

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    OK. I've read more of the links you highlighted and it seems the timing is my main area of concern. Now my question is this. Since my distributor is NOT controlled by the ECU, (like you were saying) the synchronization does not apply. So with that being said what kind of intervals should I start increasing my timing? Should I just turn it up to 25° straight from my 15°? Or like I asked before, should I manually twist the distributor to try to match what the hand-held is looking for and let the mechanical advance take over from there? Or should I go a couple of degrees at a time? (Note: My advance is mechanical ONLY. This means I have to change the bushings and set an initial.) I'm not gonna have to reset every time I make an adjustment right?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehkohler View Post
    So with that being said what kind of intervals should I start increasing my timing?
    Well, that's engine tuning and your limited with what you can do with a mechanical advance distributor.

    Or like I asked before, should I manually twist the distributor to try to match what the hand-held is looking for...
    You're not "matching" anything because the ECU isn't controlling the timing.

    I'm not gonna have to reset every time I make an adjustment right?
    Reset what? Your ignition timing is completely separate from the EFI system.
    Which is something I would never do...no ECU controlled timing is half an EFI system.

    My advice is, get rid of that MSD Pro Billet distributor and get a computer controlled distributor.
    Then you can use the Timing Table in the EFI software, which is much more ideal than your current advance curve.
    If you choose to retain the mechanical distributor, at least download the EFI software and mimic the "MPI48BB245HE" Timing Table.
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS TW 11R 205 heads, 11.8:1 comp, TFS R-Series intake, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 160A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, Spal dual 12" fans/3-core Frostbite aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust/off-road X-pipe/shorty headers, S&W subframe connectors, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD/2800 RPM converter, M4602G aluminum driveshaft, FRPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 tires.

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