Sniper intermittently cutting out, new install.

[Gary Caudill]

Yes, I would like to know that too. My car is hard to start and tries to kickback a little. I've moved the cranking timing down to 10° and it still does it. Did setting that Minimum Signal Voltage help the kickback problem?

[69RSClone]

Yes, starts like it should. I guess the computer was picking up the low voltage "noise" from the pickup and assuming it was a good signal. Basically filtering out the garbage, so it only reads the actual pulse. So far so good. I will post back once I get some miles on it.

[rel3rd]

Thanks for the reply. Interesting info.

[Danny Cabral]

My datalogs had 5, 10, 15 graphs superimposed, because according to Holley Tech, they eliminated the timer to "keep cost down". So when it resets, it starts over from the beginning.

This is one reason why I always suggest "record & review short datalogs", especially with the Sniper EFI. You only need to look at the problem area, and some data before & after it.

They were short. But they don't show anything helpful. Everything happens at once so you can't pinpoint what was causing it. If you could break it down to ignition pickup & spark output, then it would have been helpful. But just seeing the RPM go from OK to a horizontal line to the beginning of the graph, and vertical down to zero doesn't tell why. And have it happen 5 times in 30 seconds and you have to use the arrow keys to move the point, because you can't tell where the graph is going. 850 RPM one frame 0 the next. Same with all the rest of the PIDs, they all cut out on the exact same frame.

I just had a great email correspondence with Chris Myer at EFISystemPro.Com. He figured out what's happening with that datalog. Yes, the Sniper EFI doesn't have the real time clock feature like Holley's other ECUs. However, the multiple data traces occur because the ECU was momentarily "reset" due to either losing the RPM signal or an overload of RFI interference. The ECU keeps logging data, but since the clock only exists in EFI software, it starts back at strange times such as negative −5 seconds or more → (LINK).

[69RSClone]

Yes, that's what was happening. Same thing Holley said. Something was "spiking" the computer with RFI causing it to reset. Haven't had it happen since raising the Minimum Signal Voltage. Tomorrow will be the first test out on the road if I get time.

[69RSClone]

A little feedback. Took the car out for the first time for an actual drive. Drove to the gas station about 1 mile away. Filled up the tank. Started up with a little throttle help, need to work on that still. But no kickback. Drove about a 1/2 mile to my old place of employment to talk with the guys. Let idle for about 10 minutes to Learn the fuel since I just installed a 180° thermostat last night. Prior was a 160° that was holding up the Learning. Hopped on the highway for about 10 miles and took the regular roads back home. Never missed a beat. Timing Table is way off, feels like I lost 100 HP, but I already started adjusting that. So hopefully this one small adjustment of the Minimal Signal Voltage helps others.

[Danny Cabral]

Hopped on the highway for about 10 miles and took the regular roads back home. Never missed a beat. So hopefully this one small adjustment of the Minimal Signal Voltage helps others.

That's great news! https://forums.holley.com/showthread...8665#post88665 (Sniper EFI Software - Magnetic Ignition Type Parameters)

Timing Table is way off, feels like I lost 100 HP, but I already started adjusting that.

Yes, read this Sniper EFI note: https://forums.holley.com/showthread...8640#post88640 (Target A/F Ratio Table & Base Timing Table)

[Gary Caudill]

Well here's my update. After moving everything under the hood around, I ran a wire from the battery in the trunk up to the Sniper harness and the intermittent cutting out got a lot better, but it still has the kickback issue. I talk to tech support today sent them a datalog they said voltage was dropping and that was the problem. So on their graph that it showed that it already has its own wire run from the battery. I tested my battery it tested weak. But a 900 CCA is a strong battery it was still spinning the engine 170 RPM, so I bought a new battery still same problem. I had never heard of the engine kicking back because the voltage is low. I told them that I physically retarded the timing at least 8° and that helped. I have ignition cranking timing set to zero. Now if I retard the distributor more it might get better, but I'm worrying my all in timing will be way off also. And I also tried rel3rds trick of putting the stock rotor back on, but did you know that if you set the adjustable rotor to zero it was in the exact same position as the stock rotor, so I did that and it barely ran so I put that back to retarded 15° also. As far as datalogs go, they are useful and they monitor almost everything. But spark, I know it's trying to fire early, but there's not a monitor for that.

I also heard from the tech today how hard MSD distributors are to setup and how easy the Holley dual sync would be. If that's what the Sniper needs to work correctly, then why don't they put that in the instructions and leave out the MSD? And then the Sniper is not a $1000, it's a $1500 item, and people can decide from there if they want to buy it.

[Danny Cabral]

I also heard from the tech today how hard MSD distributors are to setup and how easy the Holley dual sync would be. If that's what the Sniper needs to work correctly, then why don't they put that in the instructions and leave out the MSD?

Simply because it's possible for a magnetic pickup distributor to work properly, and many Sniper EFI users have successfully done it. Read post #81 above.

In my opinion, if a Sniper EFI user isn't familiar with the Magnetic Ignition Type "Minimum Signal Voltage" & "Filtering" parameters (in System Parameters/Engine Parameters/Ignition), then they have no business using a magnetic pickup type distributor. This is the problem with a magnetic pickup distributor, there's more tuning work/adjustment involved. Hall-Effect sensors are "set & forget", very easy to use. So they should purchase the Holley Dual Sync Distributor.
http://documents.holley.com/techlibrary_199r11259.pdf (Sniper EFI Help File - "Engine Parameters/Engine/Magnetic", Page 18)

Another problem with using VR Magnetic sensors, is there's more tuning work. Hall-Effect is "set & forget".
This sensor topic has been discussed many times. Use Hall-Effect sensors. Using a magnetic pickup sensor
involves the hassle of reading a System Log and its "Crank A/D" channel to determine the optimum value.
To make matters worse, the Sniper & Terminator X EFI don't even record System Logs, so you're guessing.
The VR Magnetic Sensor Type "Minimum Signal Voltage" & "Filtering" parameters need to be programmed.
http://documents.holley.com/199r10676rev.pdf (Magnetic Crank/Cam Input Filtering Parameters, Page 2)
http://forums.holley.com/showthread....4450#post54450 (Example: Wrong Magnetic Parameters, Post #25)

And then the Sniper is not a $1000, it's a $1500 item, and people can decide from there if they want to buy it.

An EFI conversion is never only $999!

[Dr_Grip]

I think we really should not badmouth MSD distributors & magnetic pickups like that. It's two parameters (Minimum Signal Voltage & Filtering) to play with. Not exactly rocket science. Additionally, at least with my unsupported dirt cheap chineseum distributor, I did not need to fiddle with them.

[Danny Cabral]

I think we really should not badmouth MSD distributors & magnetic pickups like that.

I'm not badmouthing them! I keep saying, if you choose to use it, and if you have RPM signal issues, then you better know how to adjust the Magnetic Ignition Type "Minimum Signal Voltage" & "Filtering" parameters.
Also, ensure the engine block is grounded to the battery's negative post (LINK), and the ECU main power & ground cables are connected directly onto the battery terminals (LINK).

Not exactly rocket science.

That's easy for you to say, because you didn't have to adjust them. But if someone else doesn't know how to adjust them, it might as well be rocket science. Hall-Effect sensors are "set & forget", very easy to use.

Additionally, at least with my unsupported dirt cheap chineseum distributor, I did not need to fiddle with them.

That's why I stated, "it's possible for a magnetic pickup distributor to work properly, and many Sniper EFI users have successfully done it."
Most Sniper EFI users don't want the hassle of reading a System Log, much less use its "Crank A/D" channel to determine the optimum value.
However, I do prefer the Hall-Effect type sensors for the indisputable reasons mentioned below.
EDIT: The Sniper EFI isn't capable of recording System Logs.

Excerpt from Holley EFI manual (Doesn't pertain to Sniper EFI and its coil driver module):
NOTE - It is not advised to use a magnetic pickup distributor to directly feed the magnetic trigger input of the ECU. If the
magnetic pickup distributor is connected to the ECU via the inductive pickup trigger wires, the pickup/rotor/cap phasing
must be corrected. This operation may require a phaseable cap or rotor or possibly machining to the distributor and is
therefore beyond the scope of most users. Even with the phasing corrected, the electrical noise inside the cap
(due to the high voltage cap & rotor terminals) may be strong enough to cause electrical noise interference.
It is advised to use a crank trigger system or a computer-controlled distributor.

The more robust Hall-Effect sensors are preferred because they're not susceptible to EMI/RFI interference/noise,
and their digital square-wave signal strength is consistent, regardless of RPM (unlike the VR magnetic sine-wave).
Also, the VR magnetic pickup signal is weaker at cranking speeds.

Another problem with using VR Magnetic sensors, is there's more tuning work. Hall-Effect is "set & forget".
The VR Magnetic Sensor Type "Filtering" & "Minimum Signal Voltage" parameters need to be programmed.
http://documents.holley.com/199r10676rev.pdf (Magnetic Crank/Cam Input Filtering Parameters, Page 2)
http://forums.holley.com/showthread....4450#post54450 (Example: Wrong Magnetic Parameters, Post #25)

Hall-Effect: 3-wire, square wave signal (digital), pulse generation
VR Magnetic: 2-wire, sine wave signal (inductive), voltage generation
http://www.electronicproducts.com/El...g_for_you.aspx (Hall-Effect vs VR Magnetic)

[69RSClone]

All that info is great Danny, but it isn't in the manual that came with the Sniper like said before by others. That's the main issue. And on the Sniper, you can only pick High & Low on Filtering. It was already set to High default, so I left it. Being an "entry level kit" that is where the problem is. Most users are under the assumption that it's a drop-in & drive with the MSD style distributor as advertised. The instructions you linked say start at 0.35V and work from there. My setting was 0V. Maybe since mine could have been on the shelf for a while, they've changed the base calibration. This should be directly mentioned in the setup instructions, and adjustable from the handheld for initial startup when using a magnetic pickup distributor.

[rel3rd]

In my opinion, if a Sniper EFI user isn't familiar with the Magnetic Ignition Type "Minimum Signal Voltage" & "Filtering" parameters (in System Parameters/Engine Parameters/Ignition), then they have no business using a magnetic pickup type distributor. This is the problem with a magnetic pickup distributor, there's more tuning work/adjustment involved.

I think we really should not badmouth MSD distributors & magnetic pickups like that. It's two parameters (Minimum Signal Voltage & Filtering) to play with. Not exactly rocket science. Additionally, at least with my unsupported dirt cheap chineseum distributor, I did not need to fiddle with them.

I keep saying, if you choose to use it, and if you have RPM signal issues, then you better know how to adjust the Magnetic Ignition Type "Minimum Signal Voltage" & "Filtering" parameters.

Just to clarify. Some of us who "had" issues trying to run an MSD with Timing Control, had these issues MONTHS before we could even access the suddenly popular "Minimum Signal Voltage & Filtering" parameters.
All my MSD/Timing Control related issues were experienced, and solved, long before the Sniper EFI software was ever released.
Not even a rocket scientist can adjust something that he cannot see, or modify something he doesn't even know exists. ;)

[rel3rd]

All that info is great Danny, but it isn't in the manual that came with the sniper like said before by others. That is the main issue. And on the sniper you can only pick high and low on filtering. It was already set to high default, so I left it. Being an "entry level kit" that is where the problem is. Most users are under the assumption that it's a drop on and drive with the MSD style distributor as advertised. The instructions you linked say start at 0.35v and work from there. My setting was 0v. Maybe since mine could have been on the shelf for a while they have changed the base calibration. This should be directly mentioned in the set up instructions and adjustable from the handheld for initial start up when using a inductive distributor.

Agree 100%.
Mine was purchased in October 2016.
Mine is also default set at 0V and HIGH.

Honestly, I had never even heard the term before a few days ago.
I printed out the 3rd manual, and will be reading, and re-reading it several times to see what else I really don't know, LOL.

[Danny Cabral]

This should be directly mentioned in the setup instructions, and adjustable from the handheld for initial startup when using a magnetic pickup distributor.

The Sniper EFI Help File (instruction manual - LINK) and the Sniper EFI software (LINK) is available now, but we're still having the same problem.
Remember, I don't write the instructions, nor do I do the advertising. I'm just trying to help you guys with the magnetic pickup tech support.
That's why I mentioned the Magnetic Ignition Type "Minimum Signal Voltage" & "Filtering" parameters. Sniper users still aren't adjusting them.

I printed out the 3rd manual, and will be reading, and re-reading it several times to see what else I really don't know, LOL.

I commend you on doing that.