454 SBC 30° timing at idle, 36° at WOT runs great.

[duvall408w]

I have a Blueprint 454 SBC. For some reason the car wants 30° at idle, and max 36° WOT car runs great pulls hard cruise good no knock or surging. Does this sound like a crazy amount of idle timing? Idles 850 no issues. Set distributor & phased, and locked at 15°. Tried starting it at that and it barely turned over with starter kickback. So I advanced distributor to get it started. Any thoughts?

[AndyF]

If the engine has a big cam in it then it might like 30° at idle. Have you confirmed that it actually has 30° at idle? You have to confirm with a timing light AND you have to confirm that TDC on the balancer is correctly marked.

[a b c]

Set distributor & phased, and locked at 15°. Tried starting it at that and it barely turned over with starter kickback. So I advanced distributor to get it started. Any thoughts?

I idle mine between 25° & 29° with the Idle Spark control and have it set at 27° in the Base Timing Table.

Something definitely sounds off about your kickback statement. Did you check the timing while cranking? You can advance or retard the Cranking Timing to almost any number you want. I've set several units to crank at or below 5° to safeguard the starting system when dealing with high cranking load.

[Danny Cabral]

I've set several units to crank at or below 5° to safeguard the starting system when dealing with high cranking load.

What kind of high cranking load requires less than 5° of Cranking Timing? I'm at 12:1 compression with a 232° duration @ .050" camshaft, and 10° Cranking Timing works great.

If the engine has a big cam in it then it might like 30° at idle. Have you confirmed that it actually has 30° at idle? You have to confirm with a timing light AND you have to confirm that TDC on the balancer is correctly marked.

Ignition Timing Synchronization is an easy two step process using a timing light (Idle Spark control temporarily disabled).
Ensure the ignition timing is fully synchronized. At idle (lock the distributor), and at higher RPM (Inductive Delay).
https://forums.holley.com/showthread...ing-Holley-EFI (Ignition Timing Synchronization - A Two Step Process)
↑ Troubleshooting & synchronization verification information at the end of post #1.
Read step #2 "Inductive Delay": http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ing-Holley-EFI (Ignition Timing Synchronization)

Holley EFI HyperSpark Distributor:
Reference Angle ― "57.5°" (← Inherent Ignition Reference Angle & rotor-phasing of this unit.)
Inductive Delay ― "100.0 usec" (← Synchronization info, adjusted per application.)

Holley EFI Dual Sync Distributor:
Reference Angle ― "50°" (← Inherent Ignition Reference Angle & rotor-phasing of this unit.)
Inductive Delay ― "100.0 usec" (← Synchronization info, adjusted per application.)

Originally Posted by Danny Cabral • Just to recap - Synchronizing the EFI timing (laptop) with the engine timing (timing light): NOTE: Temporarily disable the "Idle Spark" control (in Idle Settings). 1) Turn the distributor or adjust the crank trigger to synchronize the initial (idle) timing, then lock it down. Next, ensure timing is synchronized at higher RPM using the EFI software. NOTE: Now use the EFI software "Enable Static Timing Set". I use a static timing value of 25° or 30°. 2) Momentarily rev the engine, and watch the timing advance with your timing light. It shouldn't move. If timing advances or retards, adjust the "Inductive Delay" until the timing maintains itself. If the ignition timing retards, increase this value. If the timing advances, decrease this value. SUMMARY: The initial (idle) timing is synchronized by turning the distributor or adjusting the crank trigger, and locking it down. The timing at higher RPM is synchronized by adjusting the Inductive Delay in the EFI software. The first synchronization is physical, and the second synchronization is electronic (Inductive Delay). Believe the timing light above all else, it's always the real timing (if there's a discrepancy). When finished, the timing as viewed on the laptop, should match what you see with the timing light, at all RPM. Once the ignition timing is fully synchronized, the Timing Table can be tuned for each application. FYI: "Your Crank Sensor "Inductive Delay" value is greater than 50. This typically will result in over advanced ignition timing at high RPM with a Hall-Effect sensor. Make sure this value is correct." That's actually not what this warning message means. It means if left unsynchronized, the timing can advance beyond what the Timing Table specifies. That's just a warning message to ensure you synchronize the timing at higher RPM (Inductive Delay). After synchronizing the timing, ignore that warning message and never adjust the Inductive Delay again. With the Holley EFI software, you have the option to disable this warning message in Toolbox, Preferences.

Perform this ignition timing cylinder sequence verification/synchronization:

Originally Posted by Danny Cabral Ignition Timing Cylinder Sequence Verification Ensure the Firing Order is entered correctly in Ignition Parameters (System ICF). Before the initial start, disconnect the fuel injector harness and verify at least, the first four cylinders in the firing order using a timing light. If your cylinders are firing in 90° intervals BUT in the wrong sequence, the coil harness is connected wrong (at the ECU or at the coil packs). Hopefully you have a fully degreed balancer or at least markings every 90°: 1st cylinder, in firing order, should fire at 0° (or 15° - add whatever your cranking timing is) 2nd cylinder, in firing order, should fire at 270° (or 285° - cranking timing added) 3rd cylinder, in firing order, should fire at 180° (or 195° - cranking timing added) 4th cylinder, in firing order, should fire at 90° (or 105° - cranking timing added) 5th cylinder, in firing order, should fire at 0° (or 15° - cranking timing added) 6th cylinder, in firing order, should fire at 270° (or 285° - cranking timing added) 7th cylinder, in firing order, should fire at 180° (or 195° - cranking timing added) 8th cylinder, in firing order, should fire at 90° (or 105° - cranking timing added)

Originally Posted by Danny Cabral Vibration Damper Timing Marks The following information is only if you decide to put timing marks on the damper (#1 cylinder TDC identification & 30° example): If necessary, use a spark plug hole type piston stop & degree wheel to first establish TDC, then make a damper mark at 30°. FYI: This procedure can also be used to correctly install/position a crank trigger kit/cam sync unit at 60°, 180°, 195°, etc. (LINK). If using spark plug type piston stop, some people remove rocker arms from #1 cylinder to avoid the risk of valves contacting tool. Also, remove all spark plugs for easy turning force (no compression) to prevent damage from harsh piston-to-tool contact. There's nothing wrong with installing a timing tape. Just ensure it's the correct one for your diameter damper. You don't necessarily need a timing tape, because both timing synchronizations can be performed with one timing mark. Multiply the damper diameter by 3.14159 (Pi), then divide by 360°. The answer is the distance in inches for one degree. For a 30° timing mark, multiply this value by 30. Cut out this distance on a strip of paper to avoid a straight line measurement.