Terminator X LS GM crank & cam sensor trouble.

[8stackjack]

Been fooling with these for a while, but a newby as far as anything other than base setup. New system five days ago fired right up, but was extremely rich like black areas in the floor rich after moments of running. Used Wizard and reset everything. Huge backfires. Holley tech said bad sensor. Replaced my new GM sensor with new GM sensor and same thing. Had another car with same Holley EFI system, so put that ECU on the problem car. No red now on # 6 light on ECU, but will not start. With first ECU handheld had no RPM reading, but ran a few times. New ECU now shows RPM when cranking on handheld screen, but will not fire even with adding gas manually. Tech guy says the newer units are extremely sensitive to crank and cam sensors and some sensors that will fire GM ECUs won't fire Terminator X ECUs. Has anyone had a problem with sensor not reading like this? Also, this car setup has a FAST system on it, that ran great, but wouldn't idle consistently low enough to use especially with a manual transmission. That's the only reason it was removed. I'll replace cam sensor with new GM sensor and will expect the same results.

[Rdf1]

Start a datalog, try to crank the engine and get a 15-30 second datalog. Post the datalog and your GCF tune. Also what engine? Fuel injectors? Fuel pressure?

[Danny Cabral]

Originally Posted by Danny Cabral The Terminator X doesn't record System Logs because it's only capable of external datalogging (PC software or 3.5" TSLCD). If a regular datalog indicates an "RPM Error" when scrolling through the problem area, then troubleshoot why the crank or cam sync unit isn't transmitting a signal. Troubleshoot the crank & cam sensors, wiring, reference voltage & ground, reluctor, alignment, air gap (LINK), radial run-out problems (LINK), etc. Troubleshooting 3-wire Hall-Effect sensors: https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/ (Understanding/Troubleshooting Hall-Effect Sensors - "Troubleshooting", Page 2) https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attac...e-beatbook.pdf (Fluke Multimeter Testing - "Hall-Effect Sensors", Page 17)

[8stackjack]

Thanks Guys. Holley is sending new SD cards for the handhelds as neither car will run now. Both do the same thing, no red lights, cam & crank lights blinking. They won't run even with gas in manifolds. Both show spark when removing plug, but spark may be weak as it kind of looks weak. RPM on handheld shows RPM, but after 3-5 revolutions go to error. I'll replace the cam sensor when it comes in and try that car again then. I'll then wait until new SD cards come in to check any further. The fact that they have spark, but don't fire or backfire seems odd, but then the whole situation is odd to me.

[andrewb70]

If you're interested in my tuning and troubleshooting service, I'm sure we can sort this out, and tune your car (or both). Shoot me an email: projectgattago at gmail dot com. Andrew

[8stackjack]

Installed a new cam senser after removing the built-in stops and bronze mount tab to decrease air gap approximately .050". Same result as before. These engines are in show cars and do not need max HP, just run OK to get from point A to point B. They're LS7X Tall deck aftermarket blocks 456 cu in using 58x4 pickups with Terminator X LS 550-905. Holley fuel pressure is 60 psi and injectors are 49 lb/hr GM and listed on the tuning setup in handheld. Built both engines and do not remember specs, but there was not excessive runout or gap on the crank reluctors. Also again, both of these had a FAST EFI system on them, but would not idle consistently or low enough was the reason they were replaced with Holley EFI. I'll wait until the new SD cards come from Holley before posting again as all this may be a waste of time for you guys.

[Danny Cabral]

Installed a new cam senser after removing the built-in stops and bronze mount tab to decrease air gap approximately .050".

What are the actual crank & cam sensor air gaps now? I doubt new SD cards will help (unless they're badly corrupted somehow). You can run the Holley EFI engines without the 3.5" TSLCD connected.

Also again, both of these had a FAST EFI system on them, but would not idle consistently or low enough was the reason they were replaced with Holley EFI.

They should've idled fine. What's the camshaft specs (° duration @ .050" & ° LSA)? I think you should enlist Andrewb70's help. He's very good with the LSx engines & Holley EFI.

[8stackjack]

It's very hard to determine what the air gaps are now in an installed engine except that the cam gap is now approximately .050" less than before in an engine that was running with no misses and made great power except wouldn't idle properly with another EFI system installed. I'd prefer to not get way ahead of myself in particulars when the engine, now engines, won't even attempt to run. There's some basic problem with the systems I think. Any engine if given spark & fuel will run or backfire or something. These are doing neither now. I may try to just disconnect the handhelds to see what happens if the SD cards do not come soon. The engine with the new system (6 days old) has 228°/230° and 112° LSA, and the other engine is 189°/223° and 120° LSA. The former idle problem was not related to low vacuum, but FAST system idle controls they incorporate. They told me their system wouldn't control the idle on my setup. That's the reason for the change in systems. Is it possible that Terminator X won't read these sensors that other systems will read? That the system was designed with GM sensors and may not read mine is concerning. I was hoping to find that other people may have had a problem with Terminator X LSx systems like mine and had a magic bullet correction or fix. To employ someone to get this system running other than Holley Tech is not where I want to go yet. I appreciate the help from all of you!

[8stackjack]

Installed the new SD cards from Holley and both engines now running. The second engine runs good so far, but as soon as it's started lights 5-6-7-8 go out and won't come back on until the key switch is cycled off and back on. Then the same over again. But evidently there never was a sensor problem, but other demons were there and maybe still are. Anyone had experience with these lights going out after starting? So far no other, but barely started fine tuning systems again.

[andrewb70]

LEDs 5 & 8 are not used for anything at the moment. When the engine is running, both LEDs 6 & 7 are OFF. Andrew

[Rdf1]

Here ya go. Just so you can see what each LED means.

[8stackjack]

Thanks Guys. I have that chart, but failed to read it completely. Guess what! Holley techs don't know the LED lights going out is normal either.

[andrewb70]

That doesn't surprise me. It's hard to know every little detail. I work with these system a lot, and I still discover new things all the time. Andrew