Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Let me help you with Injector End Angle.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    I actually had the numbers in that video backwards, but the concepts are the same. Give the engine what it wants based on testing. Andy

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by allan5oh View Post
      Those that watched it, 360° represents -180° in the Holley EFI software.
      Hi @allen5oh. Is 360° crank actually -180° or +180° in HEFI terms? I ask because I've been struggling a bit with fine tuning my engines IEA settings to where it seems to like it for off idle, and part throttle through WOT response. However, I can't seem to get the (idle, short circuiting) raw fuel smell to go away with (I assume) my rather large duration/overlap cam specs. I'm using -135° HEFI in my idle columns presently and think I may need to go more more towards -100° (the HEFI -71° ICL) when all is said and done, but been proceeding very carefully.

      In the HEFI Injector End Angle HELP topic it shows that graph with ABS Crank Degrees at top, and HEFI Relative at the bottom where 360° Crank lines up with +180°. I guess I'm confused on the +/- piece, any clarification/advice you can give would be appreciated. Thanks for your time! My IEA Cam Specs and Table are also attached, if that helps.



      sigpic
      HP EFI V4, 388cid Stealth Ram, 1000 CFM 58mm throttle body, Holley Dual Sync Distributor. LS Coil Near Plug, 1 bar MAP, 48 lb/hr Holley EFI injectors, 43 psi

      Comment


      • #78
        In Andy's video he is referring to 360° as 0 absolute or -180° HEFI in your pic. At least I think he is. So it's a third metric. No huge deal, just as long as we understand what we're dealing with. Another issue is cylinder balance, I have a customer with a very similar cam (434 SBC on methanol) and his engine idles amazing for such a large cam. His intake manifold and injectors are very well balanced. That plays a role in the smell too.

        You're targeting -135° (45° after TDC) as the *end* of the injection event all around the idle and off idle area, regardless of the width of the pulse. The width can change due to cranking fuel, warmup, and AE fueling. MAP as Y-axis doesn't compensate for that. Give this a shot, make sure to zero out your current IEA table and put these 2D Advanced tables in (#1 & #2) make sure to copy the X & Y axes exactly.
        iea numbers.zip

        Comment


        • #79
          I wanted to add this. It's just my lovely paint skills on that above chart. It's a visual representation of what happens with my method. The purple area with the lovely spray paint is the injector pulse vs duty cycle & crank degrees.
          Click image for larger version

Name:	IEA chart.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	69.4 KB
ID:	343171
          Last edited by allan5oh; 01-04-2019, 01:25 AM.

          Comment


          • #80
            Thanks for the info @allan5oh! Car is currently up on stands for the winter, working on some other stuff, but I'll try out your Advanced Tables next time I have it out for a drive. I should leave all the top section settings of the IEA table as is when using your two ADV IEA tables, correct? (Cam/Valve Timings, Inj Placement, Phase Offset, etc.), or should Inj Phase Offset be reset to 0° along with the entire IEA (Map vs RPM) table zeroing out?

            If it wasn't for the smell, it actually idles pretty stable at 880-900 RPM as it is now. I suspect I may ultimately need to add some high flow cats to clean it up more.



            Just added a heat shield to get a sort of quasi cold air intake going, had to relocate the EVAP canister, but I think it's a much better setup than previous. See pic below.

            Do you take on any (paid) remote tuning work? I may want to do some of that come spring if you're so inclined to review and optimize a few other things. Feel free to PM me if that's an option. Thanks!
            sigpic
            HP EFI V4, 388cid Stealth Ram, 1000 CFM 58mm throttle body, Holley Dual Sync Distributor. LS Coil Near Plug, 1 bar MAP, 48 lb/hr Holley EFI injectors, 43 psi

            Comment


            • #81
              The table and the "Offset" should be 0°. The rest just feeds into the calculator. Actually, it does sound like it idles pretty nice, good work!

              Comment


              • #82
                Thanks, looking forward to giving it a try!
                sigpic
                HP EFI V4, 388cid Stealth Ram, 1000 CFM 58mm throttle body, Holley Dual Sync Distributor. LS Coil Near Plug, 1 bar MAP, 48 lb/hr Holley EFI injectors, 43 psi

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by 383_StealthRam View Post
                  Thanks, looking forward to giving it a try!
                  Do you happen to have your intake off? I need a measurement from the valve seat to the top center of the intake runner at the flange. I didn't have the HP when I installed the intake, and need to figure out injector placement. Your Stealth Ram is close enough to the Mini Ram I have. The crappy blue line, I need this dimension:
                  Click image for larger version

Name:	Inkedhead cross section_LI.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	13.3 KB
ID:	345573

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Here are my files. From what I was able to measure it looks like 5.5" for the valve to injector, but I could be wrong.

                    Engine is a 409 SBC with AFR 220 heads and Holley 300-260 intake manifold. 11.2:1 compression, 6 inch rods, 4.165" bore.

                    Any help you can give would be great. Dyno run included and camshaft card too.
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Your IEA table is, although you're using the Holley method, not Allan's spreadsheet. The bigger issue that I see is that your VE% Table numbers look suspiciously low. I suspect that you have something configured improperly in the System ICF. It also appears that you do not have the right MAP sensor selected in the Sensors ICF. In your datalog you are getting a max of 118-120 kPa at WOT, while baro is reading 102 kPa. Andrew
                      Last edited by andrewb70; 11-08-2020, 06:13 PM.
                      Instagram: @projectgattago
                      Offering remote Holley EFI tuning.
                      I deliver what EFI promises.
                      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Andrew, you mentioned that on my other thread where the intake gasket failed. I thought the vacuum leak might have been causing the false readings. After checking, you're correct I had the wrong sensor. I have a GM 12569240. Do you think that would be the Holley 538-24 1 bar or should I go with Custom 1 bar?

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Use the Holley 538-24 calibration. I suspect your whole VE% Table will be off quite a bit. Andrew
                          Instagram: @projectgattago
                          Offering remote Holley EFI tuning.
                          I deliver what EFI promises.
                          Please get in touch if I can be of service.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            @Bill C: Hi Bill, I don't have my intake off unfortunately, but I settled on about 3.3"-3.5" (85mm) for my Injector Placement parameter in the IEA settings. I went with the GM MPFI 70mm-100mm spec I found in an old GM service training manual I had covering the 5.0/5.7 TPI engine variants. See pics below.

                            Basically I just went with about 85mm, and figured it's got to be close enough and I'll confirm next time I have intake off *or* if I can measure it by removing the PLENUM and an INJECTOR using a piece of rod, or depth tool through the injector bung hole. You may want to try the latter if it's feasible? HTH!

                            sigpic
                            HP EFI V4, 388cid Stealth Ram, 1000 CFM 58mm throttle body, Holley Dual Sync Distributor. LS Coil Near Plug, 1 bar MAP, 48 lb/hr Holley EFI injectors, 43 psi

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Thanks for the fast response, I noticed Holley specifically wants from the injector tip to the valve seat straight line distance. The way I interpret it is pretend there is no short turn and go from nozzle tip to valve seat. I suspect being off even 2mm could easily skew the phasing in bad ways. I wish we could get solid confirmation on how critical it is for this measurement to be precise.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Bill, you're taking this way too seriously. Trust me, 2mm makes zero difference. I can go on about this, but it'd take a page to explain. Andrew
                                Instagram: @projectgattago
                                Offering remote Holley EFI tuning.
                                I deliver what EFI promises.
                                Please get in touch if I can be of service.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X