Need Help!!! Holley HP Running Issues

[Brad Barker]

Got my car pretty much done. Fired it up the first time and it ran really well. So the next day I started it up again, and was letting it warm up so it would go through the closed loop mode, and it got up to 128° and out of no where it started running really choppy, like it was missing. So I had my friend who has tuned quite a few Holley cars around me, come over and look at it. And no matter what he did it wouldn't change and would refuse to go into closed loop mode. He thinks that cylinders 5 & 6 are not firing, but we checked spark, and moved injectors around, and checked with a noid light. But no matter what, it stayed on those cylinders. We thought is was the WBO2 sensor location, but I moved that and replaced the WBO2 and still the same issues. So my question is what would cause it to change like that? We checked over everything several times. Grounds are good. Injectors are getting power. Getting spark. Could it be a cam sensor? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

UPDATE: Excessive sensor air gap problem (too far away from reluctor), post #34 & #62.

[Danny Cabral]

Which engine is this? Which Holley EFI system is this? What does your ignition system consist of? TBI, MPFI, Sequential?
http://forums.holley.com/showthread....5760#post45760 (Scroll down to "Typical Idle/Running Issues".)

[Brad Barker]

6.0L LS engine, 317 head Brian Tooley valve springs & Stage 2 turbo cam. Stock truck intake. Holley HP EFI system. Factory ignition setup. Right now it's just on a naturally aspirated base tune to make sure everything is operational, before the actual race tune gets done.

[Danny Cabral]

Right now it's just on a naturally aspirated base tune to make sure everything is operational, before the actual race tune gets done.

Which MAP sensor is installed, and which base calibration did you use to create your Global File?
The base calibration you start with, must correspond to the MAP sensor you're using:
For example, you can't use a naturally aspirated base calibration for a forced induction engine.
This is because the 2,3,5 bar MAP sensor selection only changes the kPa load Y-axis, but not the Base Fuel Table lb/hr
values (creating an excessively lean map) or the Base Timing Table degree values (excessively advanced timing map).
You must choose a 2,3,5 bar base calibration or reconfigure your existing Global File's Fuel & Timing Tables accordingly.
http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ents-Read-This! (Initial Checks & Adjustments - Read This!)

[Brad Barker]

Would that cause it to run choppy? If so, I still go back to how great it ran in the beginning. Why would it do that? Sorry for all the questions, this whole EFI is all new to me.

[Danny Cabral]

Why would it do that? Sorry for all the questions, this whole EFI is all new to me.

Which bar MAP sensor is installed on the engine, which MAP sensor is selected in the Sensors ICF and which base calibration did you use to create your Global File?

[Brad Barker]

Which bar MAP sensor is installed on the engine, which MAP sensor is selected in the Sensors ICF and which base calibration did you use to create your Global File?

Holley 3 bar MAP sensor. My buddy Adam Hodson setup the base calibration for me.
As of right now, he has everything shut off for my forced induction part. He said if it builds 1 lb of boost, it will shut itself off.

[Danny Cabral]

Holley 3 bar MAP sensor. My buddy Adam Hodson setup the base calibration for me.

Well, there's the problem. You can't use a naturally aspirated base calibration with a 3 bar MAP sensor.
The "Turbo LSx 364ci 850HP 20PSI DBW 4L80E WM" and "383-434ci Turbocharged 30 psi Gas" are 3 bar base calibrations.
The "302 Ford Turbo", "555 BBC Turbo" and "350-383ci Supercharged 14psi" are all 2 bar base calibrations.

As of right now, he has everything shut off for my forced induction part. He said if it builds 1 lb of boost, it will shut itself off.

That doesn't matter. It's the MAP sensor/base calibration compatibility that matters.

Would that cause it to run choppy? If so, I still go back to how great it ran in the beginning.

A cold engine can tolerate an excessively rich AFR, until it warms up toward normal operating temperature.

[Brad Barker]

Gotcha. Appreciate the info. I'll give this another shot.

[Danny Cabral]

I'll give this another shot.

You can still use your Global File. Just 'copy & paste' the Base Fuel Table & Base Timing Table from a 3 bar MAP sensor base calibration, onto your Global File. I should mention this tip; when using two base calibrations to create a Global File. It's much easier to open two Holley EFI windows (by opening the Holley EFI software twice), and 'copy & paste' the entire Base Fuel & Timing Tables, from a base calibration, to your Global File. Click "Save" (top Toolbar) and cycle the ignition switch off-on.

If reconfiguring the kPa & RPM axes (scales), it's helpful to open two Holley EFI windows (by opening the Holley EFI software twice), and 'copy & paste' the entire corresponding column & row values over to the new Fuel & Timing Tables. Also, your Fuel & Timing Tables shouldn't have any spikes or dips in it. Then enter the Fuel & Timing Graphs and blend everything in, so it looks smooth. One aspect of viewing the Fuel Graph: It's better to zoom in, by highlighting segments of the Base Fuel Table (left click & drag), and click "Graph". This method offers much greater detail. Looking at the entire "Fuel Graph" will almost always look smooth, because it's not as magnified.

A custom MAP sensor (Sensors ICF) must still be programmed according to what it actually is.
If you have a 3 bar MAP sensor, that's what must be selected (Sensors ICF), even if the engine produces less boost.
Conversely, the Fuel & Timing Table axes (kPa & RPM) should be reconfigured to the engine's actual capabilities.
http://forums.holley.com/showthread....uning-Question (MAP kPa & RPM Axis Configuration/Tuning Information)
http://forums.holley.com/showthread....7153#post47153 (Additional MAP Sensor Calibration Information)
http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ents-Read-This! (Initial Checks & Adjustments - Read This!)

If you've read the Holley EFI software "Help" Contents, you may have come across the X & Y axis terms.
Just to clarify, the X axis is the RPM scale, and the Y axis is the MAP kPa scale.
I hope I'm not confusing you with all these details...I just want you to be informed.

[Brad Barker]

OK, I stand corrected. It is not a naturally aspirated base tune. It is his tune he uses on his car, but he turns all of the turbo parameters off and sets limits on them.

[Danny Cabral]

Then you'll have to record & review a datalog this occurrence, to determine what's wrong. And if you can repeat this occurrence at will, I also suggest recording a system log (to verify crank & cam signal integrity).
http://forums.holley.com/showthread....s-amp-Datalogs (Datalog & System Log Information)

[Brad Barker]

I did the System Log test, and the cam sensor is dead. So my buddy had me go in & change a couple things, to take the cam sensor out of the equation, and it ran 100 times better. So I ordered a new one. Thanks for all your help buddy.

[Danny Cabral]

So I ordered a new one. Thanks for all your help buddy.

You're welcome. I'd replace the crank & cam sensors. I've dealt with plenty of LSx crank & cam sensor failures from helping others.

[Brad Barker]

You're welcome. I'd replace the crank & cam sensors. I've dealt with plenty of LSx crank & cam sensor failures from helping others.

Will do. Thanks again.