Magnetic & Hall-Effect Crank/Cam Sensor Setup

[steve69ss396]

I'm using a 36-1 wheel. The instruction manuals for the Holley 36-1 trigger wheels (556-116, 556-125 & 556-126) all say to use the 7th tooth after the missing tooth.

Yes, follow the Holley EFI 36-1 crank trigger instruction manual.
http://documents.holley.com/199r10898.pdf (Holley EFI 36-1 Crank Trigger Kit Instructions)

So I have the 556-126 trigger wheel which has the 1" pilot hole, but no bolt holes. I machined the pilot on a lathe so it will fit over the raised area on the balancer. Now I need to drill the 3 bolt holes. I've read the directions and it's not clear. Which tooth is lined up with TDC? It looks like it's tooth 7 before the gap. Sensor alignment is clear, that's the 7th tooth after the gap. But it would seem that you need to index the wheel off of TDC. It just tells you to put it on TDC. Thanks.

UPDATE: So I contacted the tech line at Holley for clarification. Since you can correct the timing by using the Offset in the EFI software the 7th Tooth after the gap just needs to be somewhere in the middle of the sensor's adjustment range. This puts the 8th tooth before the gap in approximate alignment with TDC, so I used that to lineup and drill the three holes. This puts the 7th tooth after the gap in the middle of the sensor's adjustment range.

[Danny Cabral]

So it appears LSx 58 Tooth is the correct setting. If any of this is incorrect let me know, otherwise, thanks for your help Danny!

Yep, you're all set.

[THEMADTYPH00N]

I did a little digging and I think I answered my own question. The LSx 58 Tooth/60-2 are different and from EFI Connection's documentation, it does appear to deliver a Gen IV LSx crank signal. So it appears LSx 58 Tooth is the correct setting. If any of this is incorrect let me know, otherwise, thanks for your help Danny!

Yes. However, the 58x trigger wheel must be rotationally positioned as an OEM LSx or a universal fully adjustable 60-2 trigger wheel for alignment.

https://forums.holley.com/showthread...4831#post14831

The Factory LSx and Holley approach their 58x in a slightly different strategy. Primarily because GM uses misfire detection, etc. A simpler solution would be to align the 58x at the 60° Crank Reference Angle and sync to a 1x Cam Sync at 180° before #1. Factory GM 58X reluctor commences the indexing notch at 30° ATDC on #1 cylinder. EFI Connection includes the Cam Sync Timing instructions with their unit. A 1x Cam Sync would be a simple solution vs 4x if you plan to run a 58x wheel and sync from it. The Dominator can support the rest of your needs as required.

https://forums.holley.com/showthread...5083#post15083

[THEMADTYPH00N]

No, it states IF (not must) the crank sensor is setup so the 10th tooth is after the missing teeth is at TDC.
The Crank Sensor TDC Tooth Number of "15" will be fine. FYI: The crank reluctor is supposed to have two missing teeth, not two full teeth.
This is in reference to the cam sensor, not the crank sensor.
You could increase the cam sensor position 30° BTDC, but you're probably still within 110°-250° anyway, so I'd try it first.
The cam sensor doesn't look adjustable anyway, so try it "as is". EDIT: I see you're not using it, you're using the MSD 1x cam sensor.
That looks to be the GM 58x/4x crank & cam sensor strategy. (Holley EFI predefined Ignition Parameters - "GM LSx 58 Tooth")
https://forums.holley.com/showthread...5115#post65115 (58x Crank & 1x Cam - Custom Ignition Parameters)

Hey Danny thanks for the reply. I apologize I should've been more clear and given additional info. I've attached photos that more accurately represents what I have and I meant the 15 tooth after the missing teeth.

Even-fire 4.3L V6
Dominator ECM
58x crank trigger from EFI Connection
MSD 85141 1X cam sync
DIS ignition with Holley Smart Coils

I was under the impression I should be using the 60-2 crank sensor type under the predefined Ignition Parameters since this isn't on an LSx. What is the difference between LSx 58 Tooth and 60-2? I already have this engine running in batch-fire, just trying to get up and running with sequential and want to make sure I have it right. Thanks!

[Danny Cabral]

In the example, it shows crank sensor must be setup...

No, it states IF (not must) the crank sensor is setup so the 10th tooth is after the missing teeth is at TDC.
The Crank Sensor TDC Tooth Number of "15" will be fine. FYI: The crank reluctor is supposed to have two missing teeth, not two full teeth.

...from 110°-250° BTDC if the 10th tooth is at TDC.

This is in reference to the cam sensor, not the crank sensor.
You could increase the cam sensor position 30° BTDC, but you're probably still within 110°-250° anyway, so I'd try it first.
The cam sensor doesn't look adjustable anyway, so try it "as is". EDIT: I see you're not using it, you're using the MSD 1x cam sensor.
That looks to be the GM 58x/4x crank & cam sensor strategy. (Holley EFI predefined Ignition Parameters - "GM LSx 58 Tooth")
https://forums.holley.com/showthread...5115#post65115 (58x Crank & 1x Cam - Custom Ignition Parameters)

[THEMADTYPH00N]

2.2 Cam Sync setup when using a 60-2 crank input.
When using a 60-2 crank sensor wheel, this cam sync signal trigger MUST occur:
• Before cylinder #1 is at TDC on the COMPRESSION STROKE, make sure that it is not occurring on the exhaust stroke.
• It also MUST occur at least 8 teeth (approximately 50°) before the “missing teeth” are read by the crank position sensor.
If the crank sensor is setup such that the 10th tooth after the missing teeth is at TDC,
position the cam sensor such that it's between 110°−250° before TDC on cylinder #1.
This will create a proper position.
This cam sync input can be configured as a Magnetic or Hall-Effect (Digital Rising or Digital Falling) input in the software.
Make sure if you're using a Hall-Effect sensor, you have this setup properly as a Digital Rising or Digital Falling signal.

In the example, it shows crank sensor must be setup from 110°-250° BTDC if the 10th tooth is at TDC. But what if my setup is not on the 10th tooth at TDC? My crank sensor is on the 15th tooth at TDC and crank sensor position is fixed into the timing cover, so moving it isn't an option. Does the range need to be adjusted by the amount of extra teeth? For example, 360° X 60 teeth = 6° for every tooth. 6° X 5 teeth = 30°. So add 30° to the range listed of 110-250° to make it 140°-280°? I realize I may be splitting hairs, but I just want to make sure.
For reference, I'm using an Dominator with a EFI Connection 58x kit and MSD 85141 cam sync. Thanks.

[APDAUS]

Thanks for your help Danny. I appreciate it. I was only planning to use plugs J1A & J1B at this stage and one wideband O2 sensor. I'm aware of the J2 set +12V option. I want the car to be interchangeable with a HP ECU for testing, etc.

[Danny Cabral]

As I stated in my last post, the Dominator ECU has two B20 EST 12V Outputs, so use one for your crank & cam sensors.

[APDAUS]

Thank you. Also, do you think it's wise to use the J1-B20 to also power the CAN plug I'm wiring in, or just leave a clean +12V ECU source for the crank & cam sensors?

[Danny Cabral]

First, can I have the definition of that EST? Spout Output?

EST - Electronic Spark Timing. Spout Output, Google it. It's different for various engine models.

I'm hoping to use this pin-out to +12V power crank & cam sensors. Am I correct in this broad assumption?

No, that's pin J1B-B20 & J2B-B20, EST 12V Output (LINK).

Originally Posted by Danny Cabral Crank & Cam Sensor Wiring Tips: The 10-pin Ignition Connector has one "Chassis Ground" (loose black wire ground) and two "IPU Grounds" (clean ECU ground). Don't use "Chassis Ground" to ground an ignition module (or crank & cam sensors). It's quick & easy to move the ignition module ground wire from (cavity) pin D "Chassis Ground" to pin C or G "IPU Ground", where it should be. If you don't have the actual Metri-Pack terminal release tool, a "safety pin" will work. It just needs to be a stiff wire between .030"-.035" in diameter to release the terminal tab. Then reopen (bend) the terminal tab before reinsertion, so it will clip (lock) into the cavity. http://www.whiteproducts.com/removal_tools.shtml (T-6 Micro Terminal Release Pick Tool) Also, don't use (cavity) pin E "Switched +12V" from the 10-pin Ignition Connector, to power an ignition module (or crank & cam sensors), unless you've modified the wiring source to connect from pin B20 - EST 12V Output (P1B ECU Connector). This LINK explains why & how to do it. http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...10555rev17.pdf (Holley EFI Wiring Manual, Sections 2.1 "Pin-Outs" & 13.0 "Wiring Appendix")

[APDAUS]

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I'm going to wire from the 554-100 sensor to the J1A plug, so hopefully a simple process.

Another Dominator EFI Pin-Out Question. J1A pin 28, it's described on the documentation as "EST/Spout Output". First, can I have the definition of that EST? Spout output? I'm hoping to use this pin-out to +12V power crank & cam sensors. Am I correct in this broad assumption?

[APDAUS]

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I'm going to wire from the 554-100 sensor to the J1A plug, so hopefully a simple process.

[viciousride]

You got me there, please explain the Calibration Resistors and where they wire in.

On my NTK WBO2 sensor, the resistors were wired less than 2" from the connector. Just make sure you don't "accidentally" discard them when wiring a new connector.

Originally Posted by Danny Cabral Seven wire NTK WBO2 sensor connector: A...blue B...yellow C...brown - Calibration resistor in a shell, 2" down from connector. (Early NTK sensors had a shorter harness without these two brown wires.) D...brown - Calibration resistor in a shell, 2" down from connector. (Early NTK sensors had a shorter harness without these two brown wires.) E...black F...white G...gray H...(not used)

[Danny Cabral]

The Holley EFI WBO2 sensors are already equipped with them: https://forums.holley.com/showthread...ension-Harness (Holley EFI WBO2 Information)

[APDAUS]

You got me there, please explain the Calibration Resistors and where they wire in.