Magnetic & Hall-Effect Crank/Cam Sensor Setup

[AdvAutoBob]

Cam Sync Setup: 180° BTDC, #1 cylinder, compression stroke.

Got it, thanks!

[jeostang]

However, for DIS & CNP/COP, the cam sync conversion is much easier than what's outlined in that link:
There's no need to modify the reluctor with a setscrew (so it can rotate independently on the shaft).
This adjustability isn't necessary because the cap & rotor are eliminated, so there's no #1 terminal rotor phasing.
Simply cut off any 7 of the 8 reluctor teeth, and fabricate a cover to take the place of the discarded cap, adapter & rotor.

I have a question about this. Why don't you need a setscrew for the reluctor? Shouldn't it rotate with the shaft? Thanks.

[Danny Cabral]

However, for DIS & CNP/COP, the cam sync conversion is much easier than what's outlined in that link:
There's no need to modify the reluctor with a setscrew (so it can rotate independently on the shaft).
This adjustability isn't necessary because the cap & rotor are eliminated, so there's no #1 terminal rotor phasing.
Simply cut off any 7 of the 8 reluctor teeth, and fabricate a cover to take the place of the discarded cap, adapter & rotor.

Why don't you need a setscrew for the reluctor? Shouldn't it rotate with the shaft?

Because without a cap & rotor (Distributorless Ignition System), there's nothing to align the shaft to at the top or bottom. You simply turn the shaft & reluctor assembly to set & install the cam sync sensor unit (you have 360° of rotational adjustment/synchronization). The bottom of the shaft drives the oil pump; gear mesh doesn't matter. With a conventional distributor, the ignition rotor attaches to the shaft, so the shaft must maintain #1 rotor/cap terminal phasing; hence the need for a rotationally adjustable reluctor.

[mighty mouse]

Very, very good thread. Couple questions:
Small Block Ford
Explorer Cam Sync
Holley Smart Coils
556-115 Holley 36-1 Crank Trigger Kit

When using Holley Smart Coils, Under Ignition Parameters, Custom Ignition Type, do I use DIS Coil on Plug for Output Setup type with 4.5 Dwell or something else?

I currently have the Custom Ignition Parameters setup as this:
Crank Sensor Type 36-1
Sensor Type Digital Falling
Inductive Delay 50.0 usec
Timing Offset 0°
TDC Tooth Number 7

Cam Sensor Type Single Pulse
Sensor Type Digital Falling

Output Setup
DIS Coil on Plug
Dwell Time 4.5 msec

This all look correct for initial fire up?

[Danny Cabral]

When using Holley Smart Coils, Under Ignition Parameters, Custom Ignition Type, do I use DIS Coil on Plug for Output Setup type with 4.5 Dwell or something else?

Yes, "DIS Coil On Plug". The Dwell Time is answered in the instructions:
http://documents.holley.com/199r10662.pdf (Holley 556-112 Coil-Near-Plug Smart Coils)

[Rick90lx]

With the 24-1 wheel, you can put it anywhere you want, but its default setting is designed to be placed so that the 10th tooth after the missing tooth is TDC. You can put it earlier if you want to, make it the 5th tooth, and just change the value in the Ignition Parameters to match. If for some reason you can't (or don't want to) put it on the 10th tooth, you can adjust it in the Ignition settings to match where you had to put it. If it's not exactly perfect, don't worry too much, you can always move the "Timing Offset" so that your actual ignition timing is correct and matches your commanded timing.

In simple terms, the cam sensor just needs to be before TDC. Exact position is not important as it's just a reference for which stroke it's on (exhaust/intake or compression/power). So as long as it falls within that window of 110-250, it's just fine. I usually just try to put it at 180° because it's easy to find on the engine/balancer, and it's OK if you aren't exact.

Scott or Danny, I'm making a custom crank trigger bracket for a Hall-Effect sensor (60-2 setup). I'm making a non adjustable mount very similar to Danny's, but mine will bolt to my motor plate. If I don't have any lateral movement in my mount to adjust timing, I'll just use the Timing Offset in the software to sync my computer setting with the actual timing, correct? If you had an adjustable mount, you could do the same thing by clocking the sensor and not using the Timing Offset, if I'm understanding correctly.

[Danny Cabral]

I'm making a custom crank trigger bracket for a Hall-Effect sensor (60-2 setup). I'm making a non adjustable mount very similar to Danny's, but mine will bolt to my motor plate. If I don't have any lateral movement in my mount to adjust timing, I'll just use the Timing Offset in the software to sync my computer setting with the actual timing, correct?

Yes, but why rely on the Timing Offset parameter, when you can account for this in the 60-2 trigger wheel mounting? In other words, ensure your 60-2 trigger wheel design is rotationally adjustable (LINK). You can adjust the crank sensor, trigger wheel or the Timing Offset parameter (the latter being the least desirable in my opinion). On my engine, the Timing Offset is zero. On a high RPM race engine, it's best to keep the amount of ignition retard (occurring from such an advanced reference angle) to a minimum.
http://www.masterenginetuner.com/und...nition-p2.html (Read Last Paragraph)

If you had an adjustable mount, you could do the same thing by clocking the sensor and not using the Timing Offset, if I'm understanding correctly.

Yes, by adjusting the crank sensor position or the trigger wheel position.

[Rick90lx]

Basically, I dropped my damper & wheel off to an older machinist friend, and told him I needed the wheel to be adjustable. Rather than putting slots for adjustability, he gave me multiple bolt options so I can rotate the wheel into several different positions, depending on where I wanted to mount the sensor. Having a custom turbo kit built without worrying about crank trigger placement, has made adding one a little tougher than normal. In truth, I would have been better off at this point, buying a new ATI with the crank trigger shell, and using the standard MSD crank trigger bracket, but I'm too far invested at this point to go back.

[Danny Cabral]

Basically, I dropped my damper & wheel off to an older machinist friend, and told him I needed the wheel to be adjustable. Rather than putting slots for adjustability, he gave me multiple bolt options so I can rotate the wheel into several different positions, depending on where I wanted to mount the sensor.

And remember, you can also flip the trigger wheel around for additional mounting positions. You should be able to get close enough without resorting to an unnecessarily large Timing Offset value.

[doc]

I had a car brought to me with an oddball setup that we would like to get running sequential. It's a SBC, with a 58x LSx reluctor wheel used as a crank trigger. For ignition, it's running LSx truck coils, and it has a 1999 Silverado distributor which is a 1x Hall-Effect. Right now it runs with the ignition settings as follows:
Crank Sensor: LSx 58 Tooth
Cam Sensor: Not Used
Output Setup: DIS Waste Fire
What would be the proper procedure to sync the cam sensor?

[Danny Cabral]

What would be the proper procedure to sync the cam sensor?

http://forums.holley.com/showthread....5115#post65115 (Similar Forum Thread)

[doc]

Thanks Danny, that certainly helps. There is one thing that I didn't see addressed in those threads. Since the cam sensor that I'm using is just a distributor, at what degree should I set it to trigger? From reading those threads, it sounds like maybe 0°, but I think the case could be made for 78°. Thanks.

[Danny Cabral]

Isn't the LSx 1x cam sensor reluctor only attached to the camshaft one way?

[doc]

Yes, however, this is not an LSx engine. It's a small block Chevy that has been setup with a 58x reluctor wheel as a crank trigger & LSx truck coils. The distributor in the engine is a 1x Hall-Effect signal out of an older Chevy TBI truck. It's kind of a Frankenstein setup that I didn't put together, but I get to tune it. If Batch Fire is the only way, I can make that work.

[Danny Cabral]

If Batch Fire is the only way, I can make that work.

Contact Holley Tech Service (LINK) for that cam trigger detail.