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  • EFI Conversion options based on my goals.

    First, my goals for my '74 K10. I want to do a frame up restoration. The tear down probably wont happen for a year or so. In the interim, I'd like to drive it more often. It hasn't run right since I got it and I think it's mostly due to a fuel problem. It currently has one of those small, red, universal Edelbrock fuel pumps, not that great of a solution. When the engine is eventually built, I want 550 HP at the crank. I'd like to keep the engine a small block. I'm not opposed to forced induction, though I'd prefer the simplicity of N/A.

    Based on that, I've been shopping parts to convert the truck to EFI. This will solve my current running issues and setup the truck for the badass engine I want to build in the future. I'm looking at the Holley Sniper kit. Since my truck won't be wild, I don't think I'd need the Terminator or anything more robust. Considering my HP goals, most 255 LPH pumps won't quite cut it, so I'll need a 340 LPH. My truck has dual tanks and I'd really like to keep that setup as well. I found Tanks, Inc. and they have dual tank plumbing kits, in addition to, pumps and tanks. While their parts aren't in neat little kit like Holley, they appear to be $50-100 cheaper, all in. Considering I'll be buying two, that's not a small amount. I've read I'll need an '87+ dash switch for the tanks, and a Pollak switch valve (or some such name like that). From what I understand, return style systems use in-line pumps, where returnless use in-tank models.

    I plan on upgrading my transmission from the current stock TH350 to built 700R4, unless someone says it's an awful idea. I want to be able to cruise on the highway and not be humming at 3500 RPM. From what I understand, those transmissions are cable controlled, but other possible upgrades are electronically controlled which may dictate which EFI system I purchase, but I think the Sniper allows for electronic trans integration. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    My questions, based on the above goals and assumptions are:
    -Which Holley kit. Sniper or would I need a Terminator? (I know these two and trust the reputation. If there's another brand that'll do what I need, and better, let me know).
    -Which brand tank/pump. Tanks Inc. or Holley? (Is one brand of tank/pump markedly superior to the other? No discernible difference?)
    -The big one, return or returnless? (For ease of plumbing, I'd like to do returnless. I know the Sniper kits come with built-in FPRs, but I don't fully understand which would be better for my particular setup).

    Hopefully, I gave enough detail in this for you all to be able to advise me. Ask any questions you may think of and I appreciate any and all input. Thanks and have a good one.

  • #2
    Originally posted by adrenilinecrash View Post
    -Which Holley kit. Sniper or would I need a Terminator? (I know these two and trust the reputation. If there's another brand that'll do what I need, and better, let me know).
    Regular Terminator 4BBL or Terminator X Stealth 4BBL EFI.

    -Which brand tank/pump. Tanks Inc. or Holley? (Is one brand of tank/pump markedly superior to the other? No discernible difference?)
    Need part numbers or product webpage links, so we're not guessing.

    -The big one, return or returnless? (For ease of plumbing, I'd like to do returnless. I know the Sniper kits come with built-in FPRs, but I don't fully understand which would be better for my particular setup).
    https://forums.holley.com/showthread...358#post268358 (Holley EFI Big Race Fuel Pump/Fuel Pressure Regulator Incompatibility)
    May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385"/6.3L SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, forged steel crank & rods, forged pistons, Trick Flow T/W 11R 205 CNC comp ported heads, 12:1 comp ratio, 232-244 duration/.623" lift/114 LSA camshaft, TFS R-Series FTI comp ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Holley Dominator MPFI & DIS, Holley 36-1 crank trigger, MSD 1x cam sync, PA PMGR starter, PA 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, R134a A/C, Spal dual 12" fans, Frostbite 3-core aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust, off-road X-pipe, shorty headers, Earl's -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH in-tank pump & Pro-M -6AN hanger, S&W subframe connectors, BMR upper & lower torque box reinforcements, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD, 3000 RPM C6 converter, B&M Hammer shifter, Stifflers transmission crossmember & driveshaft safety loop, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

    Comment


    • #3
      If you already have the dual tank setup and it works OK, you can use a surge/sump tank system where your mechanical pump feeds a reservoir containing an electric HP pump. They are available from Edelbrock, Hyperfuel & FI Tech for $400. Lots of room under your hood for this.
      Click image for larger version

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      If you use a Terminator ECU, you avoid some possible Sniper (EMI or loose injector connector) issues, you can run multi-port or TBI and also gain a transmission controller. You can then run a 4L60E or especially the strong 4L80E and avoid the throttle pressure cable setup issues that burn up 700R4 transmissions under high power.

      Comment


      • #4
        I wouldn't spend $400 on that. Put that money toward a Holley EFI fuel tank assembly (LINK) or one external in-line Holley EFI fuel pump (LINK).
        A long time ago on my first EFI conversion, I installed one of these surge tank/low pressure pump things. It was nothing but trouble. I never used one again. I've found it's more important to mount the fuel pump close to the pickup tube (even at the top of the fuel tank), and keep the suction line as short as possible. I never had a problem since with one high pressure external in-line EFI pump.
        https://forums.holley.com/showthread...7989#post97989 (Related Forum Post)

        Originally Posted by Danny Cabral
        In-tank pumps are great, however, I've never had a single problem with an external in-line pump.
        My external in-line fuel pump has never been mounted below the level of the fuel tank.
        It's more important to mount the fuel pump as close to the tank as possible, keeping the suction line as short as possible.
        Drill the Walbro pump's inlet & outlet fittings a little larger, and use the shortest possible suction hose.
        My fuel pump has been mounted near the top of the fuel tank for over 12 years and never had any problems.
        UPDATE: I now have a custom made fuel pump module mounted on the fuel tank frame crossmember like THIS.
        May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
        '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385"/6.3L SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, forged steel crank & rods, forged pistons, Trick Flow T/W 11R 205 CNC comp ported heads, 12:1 comp ratio, 232-244 duration/.623" lift/114 LSA camshaft, TFS R-Series FTI comp ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Holley Dominator MPFI & DIS, Holley 36-1 crank trigger, MSD 1x cam sync, PA PMGR starter, PA 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, R134a A/C, Spal dual 12" fans, Frostbite 3-core aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust, off-road X-pipe, shorty headers, Earl's -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH in-tank pump & Pro-M -6AN hanger, S&W subframe connectors, BMR upper & lower torque box reinforcements, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD, 3000 RPM C6 converter, B&M Hammer shifter, Stifflers transmission crossmember & driveshaft safety loop, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

        Comment


        • #5
          If you want 550 HP at the crank and this is a truck, and I presume you want decent driveability, the only way to go is an LSx swap. You can stat with a LS3/430HP crate engine and do a cam, valve spring and pushrod upgrade. A modest cam will get you to your power goals and be very streetable. This (and many other cams) will get you there: https://briantooleyracing.com/btr-ca...-32538134.html

          Forget a 700R4 and use either a 4L60E, or better yet, a 4L80E transmission. Engine and management can be handled by a Terminator X Max. Holley makes all of the parts needed for the LSx swap: https://www.holley.com/products/ls_p...ap_components/. Andrew
          Last edited by andrewb70; 08-06-2022, 03:30 PM.
          Instagram: @projectgattago
          Offering remote Holley EFI tuning.
          I deliver what EFI promises.
          Please get in touch if I can be of service.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Danny Cabral View Post
            Regular Terminator 4BBL or Terminator X Stealth 4BBL EFI.
            Need part numbers or product webpage links, so we're not guessing.
            https://forums.holley.com/showthread...358#post268358 (Holley EFI Big Race Fuel Pump/Fuel Pressure Regulator Incompatibility)
            I was thinking this tank: https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/p...rod/prd560.htm, with something similar to this kit: https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/p...rod/prd591.htm for the storage and plumbing. I'll read about the Terminator and Terminator Stealth. I've seen some of your other posts, so I know you're knowledgeable. I appreciate the input.

            Originally posted by Danny Cabral View Post
            I wouldn't spend $400 on that. Put that money toward a Holley EFI fuel tank assembly (LINK) or one external in-line Holley EFI fuel pump (LINK).
            A long time ago on my first EFI conversion, I installed one of these surge tank/low pressure pump things. It was nothing but trouble. I never used one again. I've found it's more important to mount the fuel pump close to the pickup tube (even at the top of the fuel tank), and keep the suction line as short as possible. I never had a problem since with one high pressure external in-line EFI pump.
            https://forums.holley.com/showthread...7989#post97989 (Related Forum Post)
            Originally Posted by Danny Cabral
            In-tank pumps are great, however, I've never had a single problem with an external in-line pump.
            My external in-line fuel pump has never been mounted below the level of the fuel tank.
            It's more important to mount the fuel pump as close to the tank as possible, keeping the suction line as short as possible.
            Drill the Walbro pump's inlet & outlet fittings a little larger, and use the shortest possible suction hose.
            My fuel pump has been mounted near the top of the fuel tank for over 12 years and never had any problems.
            UPDATE: I now have a custom made fuel pump module mounted on the fuel tank frame crossmember like THIS.
            So it sounds as if the more I learn, the more likely it is I'll go with the Terminator over the Sniper. That still leaves the question, return or returnless. I favor the idea of returnless because it's simpler. Can you advise me on that?

            Originally posted by Candu SNO View Post
            If you already have the dual tank setup and it works OK, you can use a surge/sump tank system where your mechanical pump feeds a reservoir containing an electric HP pump. They are available from Edelbrock, HyperFuel & FI Tech for $400. Lots of room under your hood for this.
            If you use a Terminator ECU, you avoid some possible Sniper (EMI or loose injector connector) issues, you can run multi-port or TBI and also gain a transmission controller. You can then run a 4L60E or especially the strong 4L80E and avoid the throttle pressure cable setup issues that burn up 700R4 transmissions under high power.
            I appreciate your input. Regarding transmissions, it seems I'll have to go for a more expensive 4LXX over the 700R4. I'm trying to keep it reasonable, but realistically, if I want my goals where I want them, I'll have to choose different upgrades.

            Originally posted by andrewb70 View Post
            If you want 550 HP at the crank and this is a truck, and I presume you want decent driveability, the only way to go is an LSx swap. You can stat with a LS3/430HP crate engine and do a cam, valve spring and pushrod upgrade. A modest cam will get you to your power goals and be very streetable. This (and many other cams) will get you there: https://briantooleyracing.com/btr-ca...-32538134.html
            Forget a 700R4 and use either a 4L60E, or better yet, a 4L80E transmission. Engine and management can be handled by a Terminator X Max. Holley makes all of the parts needed for the LSx swap: https://www.holley.com/products/ls_p...ap_components/. Andrew
            I wanted to keep the truck somewhat true to its old school roots and not do an LSx swap. The more I read, the more people tell me to do one. Ha, ha.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by adrenilinecrash View Post
              That still leaves the question, return or returnless. I favor the idea of returnless because it's simpler. Can you advise me on that?
              https://forums.holley.com/showthread...074#post244074 (Related Forum Post)
              May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
              '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385"/6.3L SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, forged steel crank & rods, forged pistons, Trick Flow T/W 11R 205 CNC comp ported heads, 12:1 comp ratio, 232-244 duration/.623" lift/114 LSA camshaft, TFS R-Series FTI comp ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Holley Dominator MPFI & DIS, Holley 36-1 crank trigger, MSD 1x cam sync, PA PMGR starter, PA 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, R134a A/C, Spal dual 12" fans, Frostbite 3-core aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust, off-road X-pipe, shorty headers, Earl's -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH in-tank pump & Pro-M -6AN hanger, S&W subframe connectors, BMR upper & lower torque box reinforcements, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD, 3000 RPM C6 converter, B&M Hammer shifter, Stifflers transmission crossmember & driveshaft safety loop, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

              Comment


              • #8
                @Danny Cabral: So return is preferable. I read your posts and the one linked, but I didn't see a "why." Can you explain why its superior, especially in higher horsepower applications? My guess is, based on the posts, that it provides a more accurate vacuum reading. Is that close? Thanks.

                Comment


                • #9
                  This was in post #6 of the link in post #7 above: I prefer a vacuum referenced fuel pressure regulator in the engine compartment:
                  https://aeromotiveinc.com/frequently...fi-regulators/ (Aeromotive EFI Fuel Pressure Regulator FAQs - Read Question #8!)
                  May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
                  '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385"/6.3L SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, forged steel crank & rods, forged pistons, Trick Flow T/W 11R 205 CNC comp ported heads, 12:1 comp ratio, 232-244 duration/.623" lift/114 LSA camshaft, TFS R-Series FTI comp ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Holley Dominator MPFI & DIS, Holley 36-1 crank trigger, MSD 1x cam sync, PA PMGR starter, PA 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, R134a A/C, Spal dual 12" fans, Frostbite 3-core aluminum radiator, Pypes dual 2.5" exhaust, off-road X-pipe, shorty headers, Earl's -6AN fuel system plumbing, Walbro 255 LPH in-tank pump & Pro-M -6AN hanger, S&W subframe connectors, BMR upper & lower torque box reinforcements, LenTech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD, 3000 RPM C6 converter, B&M Hammer shifter, Stifflers transmission crossmember & driveshaft safety loop, FPP aluminum driveshaft, FPP 3.31 gears, Cobra Trac-Lok differential, Moser 31 spline axles, '04 Cobra 4-disc brakes, '93 Cobra booster & M/C, 5-lug Bullitt wheels & 245/45R17 M/T Street Comp tires.

                  Comment

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