AEM EPM + Holley Dominator

[Robi666]

It seems that I cannot find anywhere the ultimate answer to this:
Can I use an AEM EPM with an Holley Dominator ECU for both cam and crank signal in a coils setup?
If yes, will things be more or less straightforward?
Thanks

[Danny Cabral]

Before purchasing the AEM EPM, confirm that it's a "GM LSx 24 tooth" type crank sensor signal.
Personally, I'd always use a crank trigger kit...once you do, you'll never go back to a cam driven crank signal (distributor).
You can have an MSD Flying Magnet crank trigger kit, for $50 less than the AEM EPM and easily convert your existing distributor to a cam sync.

http://forums.corral.net/forums/engi...-sync-not.html (Read post #16)

[Robi666]

Thanks Danny, I have been reading that thread.

I don't have a distributor since I am building the engine, so nothing to convert.
Buying and using the EPM and nothing else seems to be the cleaner solution.

Also, the AEM EPM is a "24-tooth crank, 1-tooth cam pattern per engine cycle for accurate
timing and easy set up (Pattern available in cam/crank sensor wizard in AEMPro/Tuner)."
I hope someone with an answer about the Holley Dominator can chime in.

By the way, why one would not go back after doing a crank trigger kit?

[Danny Cabral]

Thanks Danny, I have been reading that thread.

Did you read post #16? Doesn't sound good.

Also, the AEM EPM is a "24-tooth crank, 1-tooth cam pattern per engine cycle for accurate
timing and easy set up (Pattern available in cam/crank sensor wizard in AEMPro/Tuner)."

As I said, just confirm that it's a "GM LSx 24 tooth" type crank sensor signal.

By the way, why one would not go back after doing a crank trigger kit?

Which engine do you have?
A crank trigger kit is the most accurate method of ignition/RPM signal. Better idle quality too.
Once you see the difference with a timing light, you'll immediately understand why (rock steady timing).
The first time I used my timing light, after my crank triggered DIS conversion, I thought the timing light was stuck or something. LOL!

[Robi666]

Post #16 does not sound good. That is why I am writing here.

Ford 408 stroker with a 6-71 blower.

[Danny Cabral]

Post #16 does not sound good. That is why I am writing here.

I contacted AEM in reference to their Engine Position Module's (EPM) 24x crank signal.
It will not work with Holley EFI, because it is not a GM LSx 24 tooth pattern trigger wheel.
AEM's EPM has a simple 24 tooth shutter wheel; all blades the same width (specifically for their ECU).
Also, the EPM uses optical Hall-Effect sensors, but the more reliable magnetic Hall-Effect sensors are much preferred.

Ford 408 stroker with a 6-71 blower.

That's good, because there's more performance parts availability for small block Fords than big block Fords.

[Robi666]

Thanks Danny... well, it looked as the perfect option.
I will study what to do. I will probably get an Explorer distributor on ebay to begin with.

So, Danny, I want to get a HP or Dominator ECU, and have an empty board in front of me (talking about the ignition system),
what would you do? A coil on plugs setup? How? (I don't need sequential injection with the current setup).

[Danny Cabral]

...what would you do? A coil on plugs setup? How?

It depends if you want a CNP/COP setup (8 coils) or Holley's DIS ignition system (4 coil pack).
It also depends if you care to fabricate a 60-2 crank trigger kit or modify a distributor for a cam sync.
Another option is sending your vibration damper to Miller's Mule and have him machine & mount the trigger wheel.

Ironically, the simplest & most reliable ignition system (least amount of parts), is Holley's 60-2 crank triggered DIS, but it requires
the most fabrication (on a Ford engine) - crank trigger kit, coil pack bracket and an oil pump drive plug (also read post #20 & #34).
There are various options, and it gets confusing...so feel free to ask questions.

(I don't need sequential injection with the current setup.)

You may end up with sequential injection if you use an MSD Flying Magnet (4x) crank trigger kit.
This is because the 60-2 crank trigger's two missing teeth, provide the TDC position signal for Holley's DIS.
An MSD Flying Magnet (4x) crank trigger kit has no such TDC position signal, hence the need for a cam sync.
I would read through this thread; it's very similar to what you're contemplating:
http://forums.holley.com/showthread....m-Sensor-Setup

[Robi666]

Just to be sure, as it does get confusing at a point.

If I want to do a Holley DIS setup or CNP with the Dominator and I do not need sequential injection, what I will need is:
1) 60-2 crank trigger, adapted to my 351w
2) oil pump drive plug.
OR
1) MSD Flying Magnet (4x) crank trigger kit for the 351w
2) a distributor converted for a cam sync signal or a Explorer distributor to get the cam signal from.

PS: These guys seem to sell a 60-2 trigger kit for the 351w
http://www.racetep.com/hpx.htm#SBF!A1

[Danny Cabral]

If I want to do a Holley DIS setup or CNP with the Dominator
and I do not need sequential injection, what I will need is:
60-2 crank trigger, adapted to my 351w
oil pump drive plug.

Yes, that's the simple, yet effective route.

OR
1) MSD Flying Magnet (4x) crank trigger kit for the 351w
2) a distributor converted for a cam sync signal or a Explorer distributor to get the cam signal from.

Yes, that's the other popular option.

PS: These guys seem to sell a 60-2 trigger kit for the 351w
http://www.racetep.com/hpx.htm#SBF!A1

Just be sure the the trigger wheel actually has two missing teeth.
Some aftermarket 60-2 trigger wheels have two missing teeth,
but they're not machined down to the same depth as all the other teeth.
Also, what type of crank sensor is supplied with this kit? Magnetic? Hall-Effect?


The Holley 556-101 DIS kit (8-cyl) comes with:
4 coil pack, coil wiring, crank/cam harness & crank sensor.
It's all "plug & play" with the Holley EFI main wire harness.
The 60-2 crank trigger kit/components are purchased separately.

[Robi666]

Thanks Danny. Just another scenario:
Let's say I give up about using a crank trigger wheel, DIS and want to do distributor + MSD
(for high current and multi-spark) + coil, but I still want to retain the ability to use the ECU for timing control.

I was reading that "It is not advised to use a magnetic pickup distributor to directly feed the
magnetic trigger input of the ECU. It is advised to use a computer-controlled distributor."
So which distributor(s) would you recommend for my 351w to be compatible with the Dominator?

[Danny Cabral]

So which distributor(s) would you recommend for my 351w to be compatible with the Dominator?

Easiest choice is the Ford TFI distributor. It's actually an OEM dual sync distributor and is used for sequential injection - Holley EFI.
The only downside is, it's not compatible with Holley's DIS or CNP/COP ignition...but it does answer your aforementioned scenario.

[Robi666]

Thanks Danny, actually I think this is the easiest way for me.
Mounting the crank trigger wheel is even more complicated because of the 6-71 drive pulley.

Danny, do you know if I can use the MSD 8453 with the Dominator?
Thanks for the help.

[Danny Cabral]

Danny, do you know if I can use the MSD 8453 with the Dominator?

Yes, as long as it's for Ford SEFI (sequential), it will work with Holley EFI. Ensure you use the proper gear.
You'll also need Holley's 558-305 TFI ignition adapter harness for connecting to the main EFI harness.

Questions:
1) Will this be a TBI or MPFI application?
2) Why the Dominator ECU as opposed to the HP?
3) Will you use dual wideband O2 sensors?
4) Do you intend on creating a lot of Inputs/Outputs?
5) Will you be controlling an electronic transmission?

[Robi666]

1) Injectors are on a plate above the blower, so no MPFI
2) Not sure yet - see below
3) Yes, two WBO2, but not sure 100% yet, I could decide to use one.
4) Yes, I would like to control fans, A/C, etc. and even use the ten software switches of the touch screen. Even control the wipers depending on speed, etc. After all this is an adult toy and I am learning. One day I could decide to do a traction control.
5) I don't know for how long my AOD will last. One day I could decide to swap it for an 4R100 if the Dominator will control Ford transmissions (I guess it will). It would be nice to have a paddle shifter...

I could decide to go with the HP, not sure yet.
To be true, I could even decide to use a MS3 or Haltech 1000, so not 100% sure yet. The methanol system, which seems good and easy to use, made me look at the Holley ECU. We have low octane fuel here, so I will use methanol.
I live in Colombia on the Caribbean at the moment, I am Italian and I have never seen a 351w before coming here. I am just having some fun, it will be some street, some strip.
Haltech is the only one with a serious reseller and tech support here in Colombia.

All in all, I could use an HP no problem, I don't have a drive by wire accelerator, no multi-point injection, but I am wondering if one day I will regret buying the HP versus a Dominator.

Do you have any experience with the touch screen switches?