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Thread: Avenger or Terminator EFI

  1. #1

    Default Avenger or Terminator EFI

    Hi, I have a 265 Hemi 6 cyl, with a street/strip setup. With proper induction the motor should be running just over 250hp as it is (currently running like a dog due to incorrect carb setup). I am trying to work out if I should install an Avenger 500-400 which is rated 200-400HP (very good range for my motor) or the Terminator which is rated 250-600HP. How much better would the Terminator Throttle body be than the Avenger? Would I expect to see much better performance from the Terminator? If so, how much? Has there been any experimentation of running both systems on the same motor, if so what were the results? Is it possible to opt the Terminator with smaller injectors to bring it's HP range down to that of my motor?

    I'm thinking about adding forced induction at a later stage, so I'm also wanting something that will cater for that down the track as well. Thanking you in advance for your assistance.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by elias.k View Post
    Would I expect to see much better performance from the Terminator? If so, how much?
    The Terminator injects fuel a different way. Read threads below.
    You may or may not actually feel the performance difference.
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....1490#post11490 (Additional Info)
    http://forums.holley.com/showthread....3062#post13062 (Additional Info)

    Is it possible to opt the Terminator with smaller injectors to bring it's HP range down to that of my motor?
    No.

    I am thinking about adding forced induction at a later stage, so I am also wanting something that will cater for that down the track as well.
    Both EFI systems can also be laptop tuned, so they're capable of forced induction tuning (same ECU).
    May God's Grace Bless You

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, custom traction bars, 4" lift, 35" mud tires

  3. #3
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    Sep 2013
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    Orange County CA
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    I got the new Terminator and getting all the rest of my stuff to install it. I have been having discussions with a engine builder buddy of mine. He claims TBI will always make less HP than a carb or MPI. Most of the time, I can agree a properly tuned carb will make the same or more than EFI in PEAK HP, obviously not average HP. And yes, sequential MPI you can tune each cylinder. I do have experience with the original analog Pro-Jection which blew me away back in 1989 or so, at how much better it was than my Holley carb in every way. I last used the DI which was great at times but sucked pretty much. I chose the Terminator because it seems to be the best designed "high pressure" TBI made to this day, I cannot see how with its use of high pressure injectors, annular rings all below the throttle blades, a wideband 02 sensor and ignition control, how could a carb of the same CFM even finely tuned beat this system? I can see how a carb can beat all the other TBI systems including the old style Holley TBI again in peak HP but it seems in my opinion Holley nailed it with this design, seems it should atomize fuel much better than any carb can, even an annular carb. I am running a pretty well tuned Mighty Demon 750 annular carb (with wideband gauge) I am almost tempted to spend the money on the dyno to prove my friend wrong. Are there any dyno tests yet? I haven't found any.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by htwheelz67 View Post
    He claims TBI will always make less HP than a carb...
    I seriously doubt that. FACT: Most carburetors are not well tuned at all.

    Are there any dyno tests yet? I haven't found any.
    http://www.carsandparts.com/Articles/Corvette/Tech/fuelishly-simple-1 (Read "Dyno and Drive" segment - 16.5 MPG with an 860HP/742TQ 555" BBC)
    May God's Grace Bless You

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, custom traction bars, 4" lift, 35" mud tires

  5. #5

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    Love a forum thread that starts "I don't have a clue!" - suits me perfectly
    I have one really simple question that I'm sure I know the answer to.
    But as I live in Australia and I'm building a 265 as well, I thought it's best to ask.

    Apart from changing the boost sensor and updating the map - the Avenger (or HP or Terminator for that matter) is capable of running boost through it?

    You have said MANY times that people have to change the sensor and use a laptop to change the maps (and thank you for that), but you also ALWAYS say that they are designed for naturally aspirated engines. I'm putting a turbo on and running boost up to say 20 psi, do I have to make any other changes? The throttle body is happy for me to add this boost or does it need bigger springs, etc.?
    Probably a simple question, but I thought this would be a sticky at the top of this page as soooo many people have been chasing this and you would be sick of answering it! (Yes I did look, even tried a search but didn't find a clear yes/no, so sorry if you are sick of answering this)
    Thanking you in advance.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphee View Post
    Apart from changing the boost sensor and updating the map - the Avenger (or HP or Terminator for that matter) is capable of running boost through it?
    Yes. The Avenger, HP & Terminator EFI all use the same ECU (only difference is the decal).

    You have said MANY times that people have to change the sensor and use a laptop to change the maps (and thank you for that), but you also ALWAYS say that they are designed for naturally aspirated engines.
    The Avenger EFI is an HP EFI when a laptop computer is connected to it.
    The Avenger, HP & Terminator EFI have the exact same software, and they're all fully capable of controlling a forced induction engine.
    May God's Grace Bless You

    '78 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS heads, Dominator MPFI & DIS, cold air induction, dual 3" exhaust/Magnaflow mufflers, 100HP progressive dry direct-port NOS, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator wide-ratio AOD, 3:1 Atlas II, modified Dana 44/60-lockers-4.10s, hydroboost/4-disc brakes, ram-assist/heim joint steering, Cage long radius arms, custom traction bars, 4" lift, 35" mud tires

  7. #7

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    Thank you Danny
    Now to see how deep my pockets are!
    Lets see...fuel injection, ignition box, fuel pump, hoses, regulator.
    Shame I can't get a distributor branded the same as well (Aussie motor).
    Fun, fun, fun!

  8. Default

    Hi Ralphee,
    I run the 550-400 on a 318 I have in an AP6 (yes, I'm in Australia). I've read some things on the Mopar Market forums that the standard TBI system has been known to not work well in forced induction. The Terminator system may be different due to the better atomization and different positioning of the injectors.

    On the dizzy side of things, you can run an ELB distributor and a GM computer controlled ignition module for full timing control, that's what I did.

    Regards, Robert

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